I think some posters are confusing choking with just not having a good race.
I think some posters are confusing choking with just not having a good race.
How do you define the difference?
Not getting involved when the pressure was on was what Hall did. He didn't even involve himself. Is that because of nerves/pressure, I think yes, which is choking I guess.
Radcliffe had illness at Athens and injury at Beijing...did she choke or is she just unlucky??
Sebastian Coe in the '80 Olympics 800. PR a couple of seconds faster than anybody else's. Many of the best not een in the race due to the boycott. Coe truly choked--as his performances before and after the 800 showed, he was physically up to the race, just couldn't do it on the day.
I wouldn't call the '84 800 the same kind of choke, since by then the World was catching up to him.
On the flip side of the choke, his 1500 at Moscow was a superb come through effort, showing exactly the kind of mental strength he lacked in the 800. So was his 84 1500.
Coe had some real mental issues with the 800. He lost to Hans-Peter Ferner in the European Championships one time--he may have had some other issues going on, but still should have won. Since he is one of my favorite runners, I was thrilled when he finally did win a Euro 800. Yes he could choke bad, but he could also come through on the occasion.
I would have loved to have seen a fit mentally strong Coe at his physical peak racing a '76-77 vintage Juantorena.
shalane flanagan in the regional FL race?
+1 Has this guy ever done well in a race that matters?
The Concrete Runner wrote:
Anytime Alan Webb steps on to the track in any race that matters.
In the '96 Trials Holman was clearly better than the field and ran great in the first two rounds so he was fit and healthy.
Then 13th out of 14 in the finals. He was destroyed over the last 200m by everyone.
I also think Asafa Powell getting 5th this year in the Olympics after looking great in the semis was a huge under-performance.
Hall did not choke. This was his and his coaches game plan. He and his coach believed that his time 2:13 would be a medal time based on the course and temperature. They planned his race. That is a mistake in strategy not choking. I think that most people would agree with that. You are the ONLY one saying Hall choked. There are others here that agree Hall did not choke. Build up US distance running. Hall has a bright future. You are probably one of the typical pessimist letsrun posters who will make themselves feel better by bringing down the greats. 10th place puts him among the world's elite and he has proven in many races London, etc that he belongs with the world's elite. Yes he was beat by Ritz who had a better game plan than he did. Don't confuse mistake a mistake with strategy with choking.
I'm going to call BS on this strategy. Wasn't athens just as hot, somewhat polluted with more hills?2:13 would have gotten you 5th place in Athens. A very reasonable strategy would have you finishing faster than that... especially on a day that didn't turn out as hot, humid and polluted as expected. on the morning of the race i find it hard to believe hall's coaches thought a 2:13 would medal.
So Runsc, when you make a game plan and the race doesn't pan out as you planned, are you so stupid and naive to not adapt and switch to a new plan. What happened when he realised he wasn't anywhere near the medals? Did he not think to pick it up drastically?
If Bekele was running the 10km and his coach says 'hey I think it will be won in 27.30 based on temp and past performance etc, you should just run that', do you think Bekele would just run 27.30 if Choge goes out at 26.50 pace.
No he would adapt to the race and go with it because he WANTS to win GOLD.
Once in 4 years. Hall was ranked as one of the favourites and didn't perform well. Didn't even attempt a medal.
CHOKE.
And if you look back through the thread you will find i'm not alone.
There are honest critics and there are brown nosers.
This is a running forum not a fan club. I'm being honest.
Powell is definatley top 3, probably the biggest.
Should have a couple fo Olympic individual medals (arguably Gold from Athens) and a World title in my book. Instead, he has a bronze and nothing more.
Another major one is SOnia O\\\'Sullivan in the 96 games. She was the best female distance runner in the wolr dby a good margin for the couple of years leading upto the games and thenblew up. Whatever way you look at it, the Olympics and all it meant simply got the better of her and she failed to perform.
Agree with Powell definatley.
Not sure about Sonia though. I know she was the best but I think she had major stomach upset.
I agree, plus Salazar didn't 'choke'....by 1984, he was just pretty much out of ammo to do a damn thing. His physical problems by 1984 were already getting out of control.
shortshorts wrote:
Suzy Favor
Come on, SS, you know that isn't true. She was saving it for Zurich.
Hall chocked, plain and simple. He had a plan - just like EVERY OTHER RUNNER IN THE FIELD. Guess what, those runners that finished ahead of him adapted to the fast pace and ran aggressively. He pussed out in the biggest race of his career.
Spot on WUT
Allen "big head" Webb, 08 OT's.
did AlSal ever do well in a race he wasn't the dominating favorite and/or expected to win?
His 3 NYC titles he was always the big favorite, his closest was when Gomez hung around for 18-20 miles, and despite the best that Beardsley gave him that day in Boston, it wasn't enough. He never beat won a race that had a deep field or a better racer, hell Henry beat him off a bar stool a week or 2 before Boston..
AlSal ran fast, but didn't race well, sounds like a bit of Oregon tradition
Ryan Hall simply wasn't in the shape he was in London in April. He admitted he wasn't hitting the same marks in training and just did not have as good a run up to the Olympics as he did to London. Had he came to Beijing as sharp as London he would probably have taken more of a run at either staying in the lead pack or would have made up more ground. Although I don't see any way, even if he was in better shape than London, that he gets anything higher than Bronze.
lease wrote:
I don't know whether it's sad or what, but this was the first incident that popped into my head.
and this was mine...
Kathy Ormsby of North Carolina State, who broke the collegiate record for the women's 10,000-meter run seven weeks ago, was hospitalized with a serious spinal injury today after she bolted from another 10,000-meter race Wednesday night and apparently attempted to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A0DE1DD1F3BF935A35755C0A960948260wow, that is horrible. i never knew about this as i was not a runner back then. wow.
-cr wrote:
lease wrote:I don't know whether it's sad or what, but this was the first incident that popped into my head.
and this was mine...
Kathy Ormsby of North Carolina State, who broke the collegiate record for the women's 10,000-meter run seven weeks ago, was hospitalized with a serious spinal injury today after she bolted from another 10,000-meter race Wednesday night and apparently attempted to commit suicide by jumping off a bridge.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A0DE1DD1F3BF935A35755C0A960948260
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