Fast highschool kids

I personally know there is a larger emphasis on more miles now. I was a HS kid from 92-96 and never heard of others running 60- 80 miles a week. I also barely knew about any other runners besides the ones I competed against in my state and maybe 100-mile radius. The Internet has made kids now aware of what it takes to be a good runner and get to the next level and get a college scholarship.

I was not a super fast kid then, but ran 1:59 in the 800 and 16 flat off of maybe 50 miles max and more likely 35 miles a week with like 3 speed workouts. I had an excellent and experienced coach in high school and actually had this similar discussion with him about a year, on how training has changed and how he has 5 guys running in the 16?s. He has now moved away from doing allot of speed work and now his them doing more longer runs and threshold stuff.

A big part of people getting faster is the information that is available and making people aware of new workouts, what a good long run is, whom they are going to race in 2 weeks, how their competition is doing. And so on.

Information is Power!

Here, you do the math. They were doing it every year for the full 2 miles in the 70s.

All time 2 Mile (3200) and 3k Boys US High School list

Some results From Jack Shepard's All time list

copies of all High School events

14551 Southfield Drive

Westminster, CA. 92683

+ means converted with real distance also shown

c means it was a 3200 and 3.2 seconds was added

1 8:36.3 Jeff Nelson Burbank CA '79

2 8:40.0i Gerry Lindgren Rogers, Spokane, WA '64

3 8:40.9 Craig Virgin Lebanon IL '73

4 8:41.5 Steve Prefontaine Marshfield. Coos Bay, OR '69

5 8:43.2i Dave Merrick Lincoln-Way. New Lenox, IL '71

6 8:44.0 Eric Reynolds Camarillo CA '83

7 8:44.03 Alan Scharsu Fitch HS, Austintown OH '78

8 8:44.12+ Dathan Ritzenhein Rockford (8:41.1-3.2k) MI '00

9 8:44.53+ John Trautmann Mon.-Wood. Cen.Val.(8:05.8-3k) NY '86

10 8:44.6 Eric Hulst Laguna Beach CA '76

11 8:45.19i Alan Webb Reston VA '01

12 8:45.2 Thom Hunt Henry, San Diego. CA '76

13 8:45.9 Ralph Serna Loara, Anahaim CA '75

14 8:45.92+ Donald Sage Elmhurst York (8:42.89-3.2k) IL '00

15 8:46.44c Chris Solinksy Stevens Point WI '03

16 8:46.47+ Eric Mastalir Jesuit Carmichael (8:07.60-3k) CA '86

17 8:46.5 Richard Kimball (LaSalle. Concord, CA '74

18 8:46.87 Bobby Beck Salmen. Slidell. LA '79

19 8:46.99 Brent Steiner Shawnee Mission S. Overland Park, KS '79

20 8:47.02+ Scott Fry Perkins. Sandusky (8:08.1-3k) OH '85

21 8:47.77 Jim Hill Oakton, Vienna VA '79

22 8:48.3 Rick Riley Ferris, Spokane WA '66

23 8:48.8 Curtis Beck Santa Monica CA '72

24 8:48.8c Brent Vaughn, Brent Smoky Hill CO '03

25 8:49.1i Mark Dani Valhalla, El Cajon CA '86

26 8:49.4+ Rickey Pittman East Tech, Cleveland OH '80

27 8:49.60i Franklin Sanchez LYNN VOKE TECH HS MA '99

28 8:49.66+ Mark Mastalir Jesuit, Carmichael (8:10.54-3k) CA '86

29 8:49.86+ Jon Butler Edison Huntington Beach(8:46.78-3.2k) CA '81

30 8:49.91+ Eric Logsdon Canby (8:10.66-3k) OR '00

31 8:50.29i Andy Powell OLIVER AMES/NO. EASTON MA '99

32 8:50.7 John Gregorek St Anthony Smithtown NY '78

33 8:50.9 Bill McChesney South Eugene OR '76

34 8:51.0 George Watts Edison Alexandria VA '75

35 8:51.0 Rudy Chapa Hammond IN '75

36 8:51.1 Bill St. John Mater Dei High School,Santa Ana, CA '76

37 8:51.24c Carl Moe Auburn-Riv WA '03

38 8:51.59c Bobby Curtis St. Xavier Louis KY '03

39 8:51.8 Ron Craker York, Elmhurst IL '75

40 8:51.9 Tom Graves Sandburg Orland Park IL '77

41 8:52.15 Charles Logan Bernards, Banardsville NJ '79

42 8:52.2+ Jeff Adkins Woodrow Wilson Beckley WV '79

43 8:52.2+ John Zishka Lancaster OH '79

44 8:52.4 Chuck Assumma Eisenhower Rialto CA '79

45 8:52.6 Don Moses Crescents Valley, La Cresccnta CA '76

46 8:52.6c Bret Schoolmeester Christian Denver CO '02

47 8:52.8 Tim Keough Hammond High Hammond IN '75

48 8:52.9 Frank Assumma Eisenhower Rialto CA '77

49 8:53.0 Bill Weidenbach Grosse Pointe North MI '77

50 8:53.0 Brett Hoffman St Pete. HS ->Duke->FSU FL '77

51 8:53.2 Gordy Braun, Shoreline WA '73

52 8:53.2 Tom McChesney South Eugene, OR GWI OR '73

53 8:53.3 Dave Taylor Merced CA CA '72

54 8:53.36c Matt Debole Mt. Tabor NC '03

55 8:53.4 Marc Genet Santa Ana High Santa Ana CA '72

56 8:53.4 Rod Berry Redwood HS, Larkspur CA '77

57 8:53.52+ Galen Rupp Central Catholic, Portland, (8:14.00 - 3k) OR '03

58 8:53.6 Mark Spilsbury Trust Foothill HS Santa Anna CA '76

59 8:53.8 Alberto Salazar Wayland MA '76

60 8:53.8 Dale Fleet Clairemont, San Diego CA '71

61 8:53.91 Christian Wagner 04 Columbus IN '03

62 8:54.0 Mike Keogh, Essex Catholic NJ '70

63 8:54.05+ Chris Lewis, Mead (8:50.65-3.2k) WA '89

64 8:54.21+ Eric Henry McCullwgh The Woodlands (8:14.75-3k) TX '87

65 8:54.4 Gordon Innes Upland HS Upland CA '71

66 8:54.4 Jose Amaya Wilson, Los Angeles (5'thyear?) CA '72

67 8:54.4 Sal Godinez Salesian LA '76

68 8:54.5 Bobby Grubbs Washington CA '72

69 8:54.5i Jeff Cannada Greenway, Phoenix AZ '83

70 8:54.6 Pete Romero Reedley CA '67

71 8:54.67 Dan Middleman Clarke, Westbury (8:15.17-3k) NY '87

72 8:54.73 Ryan Deak Smoky Hill, Aurora (8:51.65 - 3.2k) CO '03

73 8:54.8 Terry Cotton CA '72

74 8:54.8 Terry Williams Lompoc CA '73

75 8:54.99 Curt Alitz Highland Falls NY '73

76 8:55.0 Colin McConnell Edison Huntington Beach CA '76

77 8:55.0 Rob Wentworth Livermore, CA '79

78 8:55.0+ Jay Marden Mission San Hose Fremont(8:51.64-3.2k) CA '81

79 8:55.09+ Tim Keller (Sr.), West Chicago (H.S.) (8:52.0-3.2k) IL '00

80 8:55.1+ Mebrahtom Keflezighi San Diago, (8:51.8-3.2k) CA '94

81 8:55.19+ Mike Patton Chicago ST. Ignatuis H.S, (8:52.1-3.2k) IL '81

82 8:55.2 Fred Ritcherson Salesian, LA, CA '69

83 8:55.2 Mark Hiefield Milwaukie, OR '69

84 8:55.4 Tim Danielson Chula Vista CA '67?

85 8:55.48+ Jesse? Torres Independence San Hose (8:52.11-3.2k) CA '81

86 8:55.6 Ron Johnson West, Torrance CA '70

87 8:55.6 Steve Ortiz, Barstow HS CA '77

88 8:55.7i Calvin Gaziano Castro Valley CA '85

89 8:55.89+ Miles Irish Burnt Hills-Ballston Lake(8:16.3-3k) NY '82

90 8:55.89+ Richard Perez San Corgonio San Bernardino(8:16.3-3k) CA '80

91 8:55.9 Jim Eicken (Central. Davenport IA) IA '75

92 8:55.9 Ralph King St Pius X, Atlanta, GA '74

93 8:55.95c Jacob Gomez Klamath Union OR '02

94 8:55.95c Steve Hassen Vanguard Ocala FL '03

95 8:55.99+ Matt Tegenkamp Lee's Summit, (8:52.9-3.2k) MO '00

96 8:55.? Felix Eliff Highland HS Bakersfield, CA '77

97 8:56.0 Brian Hunsaker, Corona Del Mar, CA '75

98 8:56.17+ fname Carlton North View (8:52.80-3.2k) CA '81

99 8:56.2i Barrie Williams (North. Torrancc. Ca) CA '73

100 8:56.2 Matt Centrowitz [Power, NY] 1973 NY '73

101 8:56.2 Roy Kissin, San Ramon, CA CA '75

102 8:56.2 Carey Pinkowski Hammond HS w/Chapa IN '75

103 8:56.38 Marc (D.O.C) Davis San Diago HS CA '87

104 8:56.4 Scott Hiles Madison Heights, Anderson, Indiana IN '68

105 8:56.4 Steve Alvarez [Coachalla, CA] 1977 CA '77

106 8:56.40 Nick Schneider Benilde St Margaret's MN '00

107 8:56.42+ Reggie Williams River City W Sacramento (8:16.79-3k) CA '88

108 8:56.67+ Joe Falcon, Belton, Missouri (8:53.3 3200m) MO '84

109 8:56.6 Steve Lacy McFarland, Wisc WI '74

110 8:56.75+ Tracy Garrison (Klamath Falls, OR) (8:17.1-3k) OR '83

111 8:56.8 Rich Elliott Proviso West, Hillside, Illinois IL '72

112 8:56.8 Jim Salcido Sunny Hills CA 1972 CA '72

113 8:56.89c Alec Wall Grant Portland OR '03

114 8:56.98 Brian Jaeger Winter Park FL '83

115 8:56.? Chris Fox Martinsburg WV '77

116 8:57.0 Jim Schankel Lompoc, CA '74

117 8:57.0 Ruben Chappins Excelsior, Norwalk, CA '69

118 8:57.09 Noel Paulson Cascade OR '00

119 8:57.18+ Andy Maris White River, (8:53.78-3.2k) WA '90

120 8:57.2 John Tuttle Alfred-Almond (Penn Relays) NY '77

121 8:57.2 Tom Hale Campolindo, Moraga, CA '71

122 8:57.3 Mitch Kingery, San Carlos, CA '73

123 8:57.30+ Paul Thomas Jesuit High School (8:53.92-3.2k) CA '87

124 8:57.5 Billy Convey, Ransom Everglades in Miami, FL '83

125 8:57.5 Grant Whitney Penfield NY '82

126 8:57.58 Neftalem Araia 03 Indianapolis IN '03

127 8:57.6 Nick Ellis (Det. Cooley)12 Sacramento/GWI 6/17/72 '72

128 8:57.6 Robbie Perkins [Richmond, VA] 1973 VA '73

129 8:57.63+ Nathan Nutter Corona del Sol, Tempe, (8:54.23-3.2k) AZ '94

130 8:57.73+ Curt Anschuetz BrooLfield E. BrooLfield. (8:18.0-3k) WI '83

131 8:57.8 Mike Ryan Wilcox High Santa Clara, Calif. CA '65

132 8:57.8 Benton Hart Modesto, Cal 1974 CA '74

133 8:57.8 Doug Brown Ndame, Harper Woods, Mich MI '71

134 8:57.8 Randy Smith East, Wichita, Kansas 1971 KS '71

135 8:57.?+ Andy DiConti La Canada (8:53 - 3.2k) CA '80

136 8:57.?+ Bryan Dameworth (8:53 - 3.2k) '90

137 8:57.?+ Andy Maris (8:53 - 3.2k) '90

138 8:58.0+ Steve Padgett Cincinnati (8:54.90-3.2k) OH '00

139 8:58.01+ Ian Dobson, Klamath Union, Klamath Falls (8:18.16-3k) OR '00

140 8:58.04 Bobby Lockhart Handly Winch VA '02

141 8:58.05 Ryan Andrus (Oren, UT) -->Wisconsin UT '97

142 8:58.05+ Don Kerwin (Landon. Bethesda, (8:18.3-3k) MD '80

143 8:58.05+ Jeff Hess (South Eugene. Eugene. (8:18.3-3k) OR '79

144 8:58.05+ Jim Smith (Haddonheld. (8:18.3-3k NJ '80

145 8:58.05c Billy Nelson Taft CA '02

146 8:58.17+ Harold Kuphaldt Bella Vista Fair Oaks (8:54.79-3.2k) CA '81

147 8:58.17+ Steve Miller Elk Grove Village (8:54.79-3.2k) IL '85

148 8:58.27+ George Nicholas (Meadowdale. Dayton. (8:18.5-3k) OH '81

149 8:58.28+ Reed Mayer, Snohomish, (8:54.9-3.2k) WA '73

150 8:58.33+ Charles Alexander St.Christ. Richmond. (8:18.56-3k) VA '82

151 8:58.2 Steve Martin Davis CA '72

152 8:58.22+ Ryan Hall, Big Bear, Big Bear Lake,(8:55.12-3.2k) CA '00

153 8:58.29c Brett Gotcher Aptos CA '02

154 8:58.4 Scott Haack Handley HS Winchester VA '77

155 8:58.43 Justin Scheid 04 Sparta NJ '03

156 8:58.54+ Murad Campbell Overbrook (8:55.43-3200m) NJ '99

157 8:58.57c Seth Pilkington Roy UT '01

158 8:58.6 Tom Grimes North Shore HS, Glen Head, NY '77

159 8:58.76c Michael Kiter Shadle Park Spokane WA '01

160 8:58.84i Jonathon Riley Brookline High School MA '97

161 8:58.8 Steve Valen El Modena High Orange, Calif. 19 CA '81

162 8:58.8 Jim Chaffin Poly, Long Beach, Cal CA '70

163 8:58.8? Jim Eiken Central, Davenport, Iowa 1974 IW '74

164 8:58.8? Steve Surface South, Eugene, Oregon 1974 OR '74

165 8:58.80+ Josh Rohatinsky Provo (8:55.69-3200m) UT '99

166 8:58.9 Dave Walters, New Lenox Lincoln-way, IL '74

167 8:58.95 Robert Smitson Brebeuf Jesuit IN '01

168 8:58.?+ Adam McAboy (Miramonte HS - North Coast)(8:55-3.2K) CA '86

169 8:58.? T.J. McCardle Garden City, NY '87

170 8:58.? Tim Gargulio, Plano TX TX '??

171 8:59.00c Manuel Ruiz Monroe Sepulveda CA '03

172 8:59.07c Mohamed Trafeh 04, Duarte CA '03

173 8:59.16+ Jim Westphal Oak Park (river forest) (8:56.05-3.2k) IL '87

174 8:59.2 Peter Kummant Steele AM OH '75

175 8:59.24+ Dwight Stephens (Williams. Alexandria. (8:19.4-3k) VA '80

176 8:59.25+ Karl VanCalcar, Edmonds,WCsemis Stple5 (8:55.86-3.2k) WA '83

177 8:59.31+ Len Stiko Niles Notre Dame h.s. in (8:56.2-3.2k) Il '87

178 8:59.34+ Augie Escobar Villa Park (8:56.23-3200m) CA '99

179 8:59.48+ Ernie Shephard Wren HSl Anderson, (8:56.09-3.2k) SC '88

180 8:59.50+ Mike McCollum Palo Alto (8:56.11-3.2k) CA '81

181 8:59.52+ Jesse Fayant Mead (8:19.56 - 3k) WA '02

182 8:59.55c Chris Kollar Strongsville OH '03

183 8:59.57 Erik Grumstrup Stevens RapicC SD '01

184 8:59.57+ David Gurry, Blanchet,Seatle (8:56.18-3.2k) WA '91

185 8:59.6 Art Dulong Randolph HS, MA '66

186 8:59.6 Dennis Fee White Bear Lake, Minnesota MN '72

187 8:59.6 Kirk Pfeffer Crawford, San Diego, Cal CA '74

188 8:59.68+ John Holmes South Houston, (8:19.8-3k) TX '86

189 8:59.7 Kevin Byrne Paramus Cath. HS, NJ '77

190 8:59.77+ Josh Spiker Ventura H.S. (8:56.66-3200m) CA '99

191 8:59.8 Pat Manders, Cicero Morton East, IL '70

192 8:59.8 Dave White El Modena, Orange, CA '69

193 8:59.89c Nurani Sheikh Highland UT '02

194 8:59.9 Doug Diekema, Wheaton North, IL '70

195 8:59.96c Kyle Alcorn Buchanan CA '02

196 8:59.98+ Matt Nolan Naperville - central (8:56.59-3.2k) IL '80

197 8:59.? Steve Taylor, St. Marys HS WV '84?

198 8:59.? Randy James Ferris WA '69

This is the cut off for the TRUE GODS, but because of the

confusion from the stupid 3200 meter races I am including sub 9 for 3200

199 9:00.00+ Jeff Moss (McCullough,?he Woodlands, (8:20.1-3k) TX '83

200 9:00.1 Hal Schulz Redwood HS Larkspur, CA '76

201 9:00.1 Lin Whatcott Burbank CA '79

202 9:00.12+ Isaac Hawkins Ferris HS Spokane (8:56.72-3.2k) WA '97

203 9:00.2 George Aguirre S. Barb. CA '76

204 9:00.2 Randy Jackson Iowa City IA '76

205 9:00.2 Dave Tillery w. Covina CA '76

206 9:00.3 Jim Spivey, Bensenville Fenton, IL '78

207 9:00.3 Craig Young, Stillman Valley, IL '74

208 9:00.33+ David Adams, Hilton Head, (8:57.21-3.2k) SC '00

209 9:00.4 Gary Carter St.Clair Shores Lakeview MI '77

210 9:00.4 Pat Davey (Birm. Brother Rice) MI '74

211 9:00.40+ Todd Williams Monroe, (8:57.0-3.2k) MI '87

212 9:00.5+ Marius Bakken, Elmhurst York (8:57.5 3200) IL '96

213 9:00.6 Armondo Cendejas Buena Park HS, Buean Park CA '74

214 9:00.6 Reo Rorem, Gilman, 9:00.6, IL '76

215 9:00.7+ Ralph Caron, Chicago Marist +(8:57.7-3200m) IL '80

216 9:00.8 Ed Mendoza - Helix High School, La Mesa, CA '70

217 9:00.8+ Don Ellis, Glen Ellyn Glenbard West IL '71

218 9:00.9 Herb Wills, Leon, Tallahassee, FL '79

219 9:00? Seth Brown South, Eugene, -->U.Florida OR '7?

Kamikaze wrote:

The Internet has made kids now aware of what it takes to be a good runner and get to the next level and get a college scholarship.

Little did anyone know the internet was invented by Al Gore in the 70s, soon fell out of fashion only to be discovered again in the 90s.

"And that's the way it was....thirty years ago today" - Walter Cronkite

Looking at the records above and doing the math I would say we are seeing a great improvement and the decade of the 2000-2009 could prove to be the best ever high school generation. Yes, even better than the 1970's. As you will see below they have already surpassed some of the 1970's numbers in only 4 years of data.

Bottom line = The 1970's produced some great runners but in only 4 years the 2000's are already producing record numbers. Only time will tell but I think the 2000's will end up at the top of every list and well ahead of the 1970's for total number of sub 9:00 performances! Boy did the 1990's suck! They were equal to the 1960's. It is great to see a running comback amongst our high schools. This should bode well for the future of American distance running!

Number of sub 9:00 performances by decade:

1970's = 85

1980's = 47

2000's = 40 (Only 4 years)

1990's = 14

1960's = 13

Highest number of sub 9:00 performances in a single year:

2003 = 16

1977 = 13

2000 = 11

Number of sub 9:00 performances in consecutive 2years:

2002-2003 = 24

1976-1977 = 22

1972=1973 = 20

Number of sub 9:00 performances in consecutive 3years:

1975-77 = 32

2001-03 = 29

1972-74 = 29

1973-75 = 29

Number of sub 9:00 performances in consecutive 4 years:

1974-77 = 41

2000-03 = 40

1972-75 = 39

Best 2 years in any decade:

2000's = 24

1970's = 23

1980's = 16

1990's = 9

1960's = 8

Best 3 years in any decade:

2000's = 35

1970's = 33

1980's = 23

1990's = 11

1960's = 10

Best 4 years in any decade:

1970's = 43

2000's = 40

1980's = 30

1990's = 13

1960's = 11

What do you think of the current generation of runners now Malmo?

In the 70's, everyone emulated Jim Ryun.

In the early 80's every one saw that Coe got results on lower mileage and so they emulated his training, but couldn't match his talent for the next two decades.

Sometime around 2000, the idea of higher mileage began returning, perhaps with Donald Sage and Ritz, and the internet.

internet was invented in the 50's. something about the russians.

The two mile was the big race in the 70's for two reasons. Prefontaine/Virgin and the fact that it became pretty clear that breaking Ryun's 3:55.3 was damn near impossible. As we moved into the 80's way too many high school coaches started reading Runner's World and the whole low mileage, don't burn the kids out philosophy took hold. We had a lot more good 800 meter runners but the 1,600 and 3,200 suffered.

USA wrote:

What do you think of the current generation of runners now Malmo?

Actually, USA, your math isn't quite right - but good enough for government work. The lists record the year in which the athletes ran their best times, not the number of performances in any given year. The last year counted will always be skewed by the Juniors in the pool who will (might) run faster the next year, thus deductng from the current year's total.

The "less is more" era has been over since the late 90s. The trend will continue. As more and more of these kids work their way into college and further expect to see runners under 3:35 and 13:20 on a regular basis again. As this pool deepens, and as they age, expect to see dozens upon dozens running faster than 2:15 again - every year.

It's all a game of numbers. Don't count on those runners under 9:00 to be the future. Many will wash out, but many more will be improving from the 9:10s and 9:20s. It's one grand pyramid scheme.

what kind of mileage did ritz, webb, solinsky do in highschool.

Actually, USA, your math isn't quite right - but good enough for government work. [/quote]

How did you know I work for the government.

USA wrote:

How did you know I work for the government.

It's an expressioon.

3 guys from Hammond, In ran under 9:00 in the same year....that is just unreal!

The internet was created by the Brits, bloody Yanks claim credit for everything. And I bet most of you actually believe that the Americans captured the Enigma code breaking machine.

Damned Hollywood.

Robert Smith wrote:

The internet was created by the Brits, bloody Yanks claim credit for everything. And I bet most of you actually believe that the Americans captured the Enigma code breaking machine.

Damned Hollywood.

And I bet you think Bletchley Park was all the Brits' doing?

Josh McDougal also ran an 814 3k last year=853+

So there is one more HS in 2003 to add to the mix.

webb-60

solinsky-90-95

ritz-90 his senior year

USA wrote:

Boy did the 1990's suck! They were equal to the 1960's. It is great to see a running comback amongst our high schools.

Not in the mile they weren't! ; ) Ryun, Liquori, Danielson (who was done with running within 18 months after HS, he got married and concentrated on school and work - the good ol' days) Lindgren - who was at 4:01 ... All this with no internet!

Actually, the recent trends are encouraging, and maybe we'll see some runners arise who aren't psyched out by the Kenyans, Moroccans, etc. Just looking at the best times of our "top" 1500 and 5k guys makes one wonder just what our top guys were up to in the 70's and 80's, never mind the HS runners. The Americans and Europeans are literally getting slower at the top.

what would those numbers look like when compared against the change in population (of high school aged Americans)?

It is amazing what a bit more mileage and intensity can do. The ethiopians and kenyans are doing it from the time they are six. I don't believe in burnout, I just think there are periods when our body is adjusting to increased training and you have to be tough enough mentally to get through these times and push on. I did 30-35 miles a week in highschool, ran like 9:34 & 4:19. Came to college ran twice that, more intense workouts, dropped to 8:55(8:18 3k) & 4:10 my freshman year. I wish I had started earlier than I'd have more to build on in the future. I think this trend is great and the success of US distance runners on the international scene will once again reach the level of the 70s, or better.