Why do Americans fear Canadian style health care?

Prisons and golf courses?

There is no free market in prisons, so it's impossible to make a judgement. When you talk about "prviate" prisons you're misusing the term private.

If you made a list of the top 10 best golf courses that someone would want to play before they died I would think you'd find most would be private courses, not municipal courses. Bethpage is about the only one I could name off the top of my head, the rest - Augusta, etc, would be private.

Quickly on the fight fires comment, many fire fighters are volunteers. There is no money in fighting fires, hence no motive for private companies to do so.

As for prisons, I'd have to read up on that, but again it seems to be a non-profit industry.

I live near many fine golf courses in FL, and the nicest one near me is privately owned.

On my situation, I am 30 years old and have been living on my own for 8 years (not counting college). I do know how much it costs to insure myself as I've been a controller of a small company. I've had health insurance at every job I've had. I would rather be working some cake job somewhere, but I chose to lead a stable life and make good money. I get to work 10 hour days so I can have this privilege. Now I am supposed to pay extra taxes so some fat unemployed smoking loser can have health coverage? I like that my insurance company will deny him, because he is a losing bet. He will be a losing bet to the country if we nationalize healthcare.

Yes, part of the reason healthcare is expensive is to pay for medical care for the poor. That and the frivilous lawsuits from the slimy lawyers you see on TV and the back of the yellow pages. It is they who have increase med mal insurance and therefore the amount that healthcare costs. By the way, even at crazy prices a majority of hospitals in the US have negative net income (not including subsidies or grants).

Mtn Dew wrote:

No one has the right to healthcare. Rights are universal, you can't give them to someone or take them away. They exist independent of government.

No one has a right to any good or service. There is no right to healthcare just as there is no right to food, housing, clothing, ipods, haircuts, cars, art or any other good or service.

How is healthcare different than the right to free speech, self-determiniation, and our other basic liberties? The founding fathers argued that these were so fundamental that they were self-evident to all. Well, isin't it self-evident that some level of healthcare is necessarry to live a worthwile life? Even if someone is a deadbeat isin't something like healthcare necessarry for them to make the most of their life should they choose? This certainly is the case for life, liberty, and the presuit of happiness.

I get that lines have to be drawn in the sand regarding what is and what isin't a right but people need to specifically explain why healthcare is/isin't a right.

I for one see it as tied directly to the right to life and happiness. Without healthcare you can be robbed of your right to life (in certain circumstances) or it can make it impossible to live one worth enjoying.

And for the record healthcare dosen't have to be through the federal government. The states can be involved as well.

Mtn Dew wrote:

Government does do some things best - like kill and maim. But they don't do anything useful better, they can't - it's not possible because government revenues are taken by force and it makes judgements impossible to make.

What about that whole think about the "consent of the governed?" You seem to be convienently ignoring this very imporntant reality. Of course this gets into the issue of "majority rule" and "tyranny of the minority."

Mr. Price, that is absolutely ludicrous. In effect, you are saying that your right to "free speech" means that you should receive front page attention for your views on a major newspaper FOR FREE.You have a right to speak but not to be heard. You have a right to pursue health but not a right to have it provided to you without charge!

I'd really be interested if any other oldtimers, on Medicare, agree with my earlier post - that 98% of us on Medicare are enormously grateful for it. I don't think of myself as a freeloader since I worked all my life - well, 40 years - and I've saved. But medical costs are so extreme that only the Buffetts and Gates of this world (only a slight exaggeration) could afford major medical expenses out-of-pocket. Not to mention what I consider most obscene - the fact that the uninsured are charged, on average, 2 1/2 times as much - for the same medical care - as those with insurance.

Without reading everyone else's take on it, the answer to your question is quite simple, Americans don't want Canadian style healthcare because Canandian style healthcare is a miserable failure. So miserable in fact that numerous private hospitals have sprung up in the U.S. near the Canadian border to serve the needs of Canadians who refuse to wait 6 months to a years for a procedure they can get done in the U.S. at any time! By the way, health care is not a right, no way, no how! Your rights are spelled out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. You may pursue happiness but being happy is not guaranteed. Get over it and quit expecting a hand out.

Marquis Dave B wrote:Canandian style healthcare is a miserable failure.

I don't know a single other Canadian who would agree with you on that point. In fact, universal health care ranks as one of the things Canadians value the most about our country.

Of course our system isn't perfect, but I'll take the problems in our system over the problems in yours any day, thank you very much.

i wonder wrote:

Insurance wrote:

Relying on your employer for health insurance sounds ridiculous to me and anti-capatalist for the employer. Shouldn't healthcare be a human right available to everyone? Even the poor and the unemployed.

I know you guys are afraid of communism but don't you think you can have a strong capitalist society where healthcare workers are like police officers or fire fighters. It upsets me that so many people don't have access to healthcare in such a great country.

Maybe its cause you have to wait 30 weeks for an MRI or 60 weeks for surgery? There's a reason Canadians who can afford it come to US for surgery and other major medical procedures....

It is a myth that Canadians are running to the States for health care. It makes for a nice story, but it just isn't happening.

Rainy Day wrote:

Name one thing the government does better than the private sector?

Here is one thing it does better: bailing out the private sector - to the tune of a trillion dollars.

You "small government" people sure have short memories - why it seems like just last week the government was saving us from the private sector's massive screw ups.

The downfall of private health care companies is that they all have to bid for the same merchandise. Company X can't possibly tell a major supplier that his prices are too high for medication Y because then company x would be unable to provide medication (or procedure) Y and would lose business. You have a system here where the suppliers (drug companies, medical equipment suppliers) can charge obscene prices because no private hospital wants to be caught without lifesaving widget X when a patient comes in and needs it.

Here is a real world example. The father of one of the girls on my team works in the air medical industry. He travels to Russia to buy his supplies because they are cheaper there. A piece of equipment that from the Medtronic corporation costs him 500 dollars to buy in Russia, but 7,000 to buy here in the states. This is the same piece of equipment from the same manufacturer marked up 1400 percent in the united states.

This parent is one of the most conservative people I know, but he is also 100% in favor of a single payer system.

the gooch wrote:

Here is one thing it does better: bailing out the private sector - to the tune of a trillion dollars.

You "small government" people sure have short memories - why it seems like just last week the government was saving us from the private sector's massive screw ups.

The government did no better in the mortgage business (Fannie and Freddie). I disagree with the bailout. I say let 'em burn.

By the way, it has not been mentioned that the US has the greatest healthcare in the world. It may be expensive, but you get what you pay for.

Marquis Dave B wrote:

Without reading everyone else's take on it, the answer to your question is quite simple, Americans don't want Canadian style healthcare because Canandian style healthcare is a miserable failure. So miserable in fact that numerous private hospitals have sprung up in the U.S. near the Canadian border to serve the needs of Canadians who refuse to wait 6 months to a years for a procedure they can get done in the U.S. at any time! By the way, health care is not a right, no way, no how! Your rights are spelled out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. You may pursue happiness but being happy is not guaranteed. Get over it and quit expecting a hand out.

So what if health care isn't a constitutional right. The constitution says nothing about the FAA. Would you like to fly without air traffic controllers?

And are you saying that it is ok for someone to get sick and die because they can't afford health insurance? Are you human?

Mtn Dew wrote:

Prisons and golf courses?

There is no free market in prisons, so it's impossible to make a judgement. When you talk about "prviate" prisons you're misusing the term private.

If you made a list of the top 10 best golf courses that someone would want to play before they died I would think you'd find most would be private courses, not municipal courses. Bethpage is about the only one I could name off the top of my head, the rest - Augusta, etc, would be private.

I never said there was a free market in prisons. However, there are privatized prisons out there, and they are the worst. Also, I never said public golf courses are the best. I specifically mentioned public courses that were privatized. The private companies that buy them tend to let the course go to hell so they can maximize profits.

Chris Knight wrote:

I never said there was a free market in prisons. However, there are privatized prisons out there, and they are the worst. Also, I never said public golf courses are the best. I specifically mentioned public courses that were privatized. The private companies that buy them tend to let the course go to hell so they can maximize profits.

Holy Crap,

I can't believe we are using municipal golf courses as an example of something the government should be doing for us or can do better than the private sector. Our city build a golf course five years ago with very optimistic revenue projections. It was going to turn a profit for the city. None of that came true. It is turning larger and larger losses each year and my tax dollars (property tax dollars) are supporting other people's golf habit. Meanwhile there are numerous private courses in the area that only cost something to the people who choose to play golf on them.

Responding to an earlier post--health care is not a right in the sense that free speech, etc. are rights. All of those other rights you listed are freedom from government interference. It is a very large stretch to state based on those examples that it is a right that the government ought to positively provide you with health care.

I have never been treated in Canada, so I can't comment on that system, but having been to the hospital in the States for emergencies several times and it has been a complete nightmare every time. If you have to go to the ER, you wait for hours in a room filled with diseased people, get treated by a doctor for ten seconds, and then you fight with your insurance company for the next year. I've always had insurance and it's always a nightmare. Insurance companies, in my experience, will do anything in their power to screw you over. Granted, when I have an appointment with a specialist, etc., it's a lot easier because you can clear everything first.

That being said, having been close to people on Medicaid, and government-run health care is so, so much worse. The crap that system gets away with is criminal.

So, in summary, our health care industry blows ass and I am more than willing to look at other solutions. I don't know why Americans are so knee-jerk xenophobic towards other countries that may have a far superior system in place.

We fear the military might of the Canadians.

all i can say is pray that you always have insurance and that you never have a major illness or disease without it - you can run up a bill bigger larger than the value of your home in only a few short weeks.

additionally, the government can screw up the economy, causing you to lose your job - no fault of your own - then you are screwed - sorry those are just the facts. if we were to enter a protracted recession, with unemployment in the double digits ... there will be a lot more converts to "socialism". Jesus, getting medical treatment for one of your kids while you are unemployed should not destroy you financially FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!

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the whole "pay me or suffer, pay me or die" is just complete b.s.

right now as we speak drug research on certain illnesses isn't being done because it isn't profitable, but if grandpa needs a 3 hour boner and will pay $5 per pill - get outta the way!