I\'m a rising HS senior; 4:12 miler with solid SAT\'s/ grades; what are the top schools I should look at?

Sounds like Michigan to me.

Rising HS Senior wrote:

I run 4:12 mile, 1:53 half, 51 quarter. I run 50 miles per week summer; much less during the year.

I am starting the college visit / talking to coaches process. My father ran in college and had a "throw them against the wall and see who survives" coach. I'd rather not have that; and would like to run for a coach/program that

- Knows middle distance and has coached someone to NCAAs

- Has good training partners

- Is a top 15 school academically

- Anything else that you think is important.

Thanks for you help and advice.

Academically, what field? Depending on what you're looking at, some schools will be top 15 in one field and not even rank in another.

Good coaches are easy to find. Top 15 school (field-dependent) and a good coach is another story. Note that school is often like running: what you put in is what you get out. A "top 15" school offers two things: 1) the environment to have bright minds around you 2) the reputation factor. If you want a good education, you can get that anywhere. If you want recognition for going to a top-tier school first and foremost, your criteria are much more stringent.

If I recall correctly, there was some school called Cornell worth looking at. Not sure about the coach though.

Stanford sounds like a good fit if you have a solid SAT score and grades. They are generally regarded as the best combo of academics and running at a DI program but haven't excelled at the national level recently like they have in years past. Any of the Ivy league schools would be an excellent opportunity academically, but aren't generally known for having great athletic programs in track although some of the greats have taken this path (Frank Shorter out of Yale comes to mind). Some of the top state schools that rank high academically with solid programs include University of California Berkeley and the University of Virginia.

Additionally, some top ranked DIII schools offer a less competitive atmosphere and more opportunity to develop as well as focus on school. Nick Symmonds, as you may know, graduated from DIII school Willamette. At the DIII level, University of Chicago, Washington University in St. Louis and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore all come to mind as top schools with solid or growing running programs. MIT also has a solid program in it's own right if you're into the math and sciences.

In addition to these schools there are numerous others that may be a factor due to other considerations including:

1) Cost, scholarship possiblities

2) Location to family and friends and proximity to a big city.

3) Rankings, etc.

It's important to keep your options open at this stage and stay in contact with those schools that interest you until you come up with a definitive choice.

Good Luck.

I was in your shoes 30 years ago.

I went to school on a Division 1 scholarship - a bit different then - Title IX did not have the bite it does now, and more scholarships were available.

I have two daughters now who don't run, but are Phi Beta Kappa performers at so-called top 10 schools. They are in every way stellar and mature academic performers, whose choices and prospects are vast. I went to some of the best undergrad and grad schools in the country - but I am light years from these two. As far as my kids go, I married well - but I hope I did something right, too.

My perspective as a parent is different from that as an athlete.

Go to the school that fulfills your goals and would cause you to be the most challenged and yet happy if, for whatever reason, you got there and never ran another step. Running well is nice - it is actually more challenging than anything I have ever done professionally - but it is still just that - running - and is a sport that has marginal economic prospects for all but a few. This doesn't mean that you go to a school where you can "blow-off" running or take it less seriously than a Division 1 challenge requires, but that you put yourself, with a coach assisting, in a state that permits you to control running rather than let it control you. This may sound corny, but a self image that says, I am a good budding engineer/computer scientist/pre-law guy/pre-med/teacher - or what have you - that just happens to enjoy expressing myself through running is the way to go. If you turn out to be a Nick Symmonds (I love Div. III athletic successes), you can worry about the full time professional track thing then.

This advice may be a bit amorphous - but a young man with your profile has a heck of lot on the ball and you likely very quickly can conclude which schools meet this standard.Y You appear to have helpful and involved parents, too - I had no parental involvement - zip, zero - so my advice here comes from a legion of mistakes. And in any event, you ought to be able to get a feel, with some due diligence, as to whether a coach would embrace that perspective.

Oh, and by the way....although I don't have coaching skills in the sport - far from it - I find more college careers get off to a bad start from haphazard training in the summer after the final high school track season. The transition from the regimented life of high school to college is unsettling - and rather than look to running the miles as a burden or chore - and I would opt for a longer, slower mileage approach to get used to college level work - I would view the training as one fun constant in your life as you make the transition.

what about UPenn

post_collegiate wrote:

some top ranked DIII schools offer a less competitive atmosphere and more opportunity to develop as well as focus on school. Nick Symmonds, as you may know, graduated from DIII school Willamette. At the DIII level, University of Chicago, Washington University in St. Louis and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore all come to mind as top schools with solid or growing running programs. MIT also has a solid program in it's own right if you're into the math and sciences.

Good Luck.

Your forgot Williams in your D3 list. Also keep in mind (if you like the small liberal arts school, look at Davidson. Also look at schools in the Patriot League. While its not as prestigious as the Ivy League, you can certaintly get an equal education at most, if not all, of the schools there

Great school with an excellent business program (Wharton), and part of the Ivy League.

Sam Burley is a recent grad that's still been running well in the 800m.

I was thinking I should of added Amherst and Williams as they are both excellent Liberal Arts schools at the DIII level. In the end though, there are numerous schools that could potentially meet the criteria and it ultimately is a personal, best fit decision that will decide.

If you visit Davidson or Stanford there is no way you could possibly say no after seeing where you'll live. Absolutely gorgeous.

Honestly, I would look hard at either Stanford or the Air Force Academy.

Stanford, as previously mentioned, has a great combination of both academics and athletics (especially running, but in other sports as well) and has the nice west coast appeal if you like being out that way.

Since Hayes left NAU a few years ago and took over at the Air Force Academy he's beginning to get alot more looks from top high school prospects. He's definitely been successful in developing all of his runners, so it's promising that you'll drop your time there, and he's starting to get a solid group of sub 1:50/3:50 middle distance guys (Lomong and a few other guys train out there on the pro scene as well). You'd be able to train in Colorado which is a plus altitude wise and the fact that you'll have TONS of trails out that way. It also provides you the chance to go to one of the top academic institutions in the nation and have the honor and prestige of graduating from a service academy, but that has to be your kind of thing and you have to go thru the process of absolutely getting accepted. Above all, it's a guaranteed full $300,000.00 scholarship if you do get recruited and accepted.

There's also a few others (Cornell, Wisconsin, Penn) that would be solid choices as well, but you I think the two aforementioned are the best avenues when it's all said and done.

I would say Georgetown. Its a great school academically with a long history of great middle distance runners. There are 5 current georgetown students or alumni competing in the 1500 at the olympic trials (2 women, 3 men).

Other schools to consider with great academics and track programs would be Stanford and Notre Dame. Micigan and Villanova are good academic schools, but not to 20, that have awesome middle distance programs consistently. Princeton, UPenn and Columbia are all great academic schools who have occassionally had some really good middle distance runners.

William & Mary would be a good choice as well.

It's not like there are that many top-15 academic schools.

Princeton, Stanford, UPenn, Columbia, Dartmouth, and no one's mentioned Duke yet -- all these have people you could train with and have had success now or in the recent past.

Schools just outside the top-15 that are still pretty good academically and good in mid-distance include Notre Dame, Georgetown, Michigan, Virginia, and Cal Berkeley.

Don't do D3, at least not if you want training partners.

When was the last time a sub 4:15 miler went to a D3 school??

it does depend a lot on what you want to major in, but here's a quick list of some schools to consider.

Michigan

Georgetown

Stanford

Cornell

Columbia

Princeton

Notre Dame

Univ of Virginia

From your times, relatively low mileage, and the fact you ran them as a JR, it looks like you could be competitive at D1 nationals if you develop well. Winning D3 nationals will seem empty to you, I think. You aren't really a national champion at the college level.

I suggest Harvard. Great name recognition (duh), people to train with (14:07 5ker, etc..) and what I think is an up and coming program.

Best of luck.

wowow wrote:

You aren't really a national champion at the college level.

What I meant was: if you end up winning a D3 championship, it might feel empty to you, because a D3 champion isn't really a champion at the national college level.

I'd much rather be a D1 AA than a D3 champ.

williams got 2 last year...i think a 4:11 and a 4:14/4:15 guy for starters. not sure what leer's hs pr's were or symmonds. but there's plenty of sub 4:15 guys in d3 to train w/, not an abundance, but at the right school.

Come visit Princeton!