Stop whining about oil prices - buy stock in oil companies

I dislike you already.

You've assumed that there are only two things in the system oil stock and oil. Yet we all know oil prices affect a large portion of all other things we pay for. So to say that the cost of oil over that span is only $1500 is just false. You also failed to acount for inflation over the past 5 years.

The difference in gas expenditures isn't only present in buying gas, considering gas and oil prices affect a ton of other commodities.

I guess you missed the part where I said me and my wife's Roth IRA.

Therefore I am actually not putting enough in to reach the max.

Please read next time and save all of us a lot of troubles in having to read your response.

Thank you

I guess you missed the whole point behind my statement.

It's good to save...its even good to be tight with your money.

However, there is a point where you are saving and being so tight with your money that you forget to live your life.

The odds dictate that a high percentage of people who save and are tight with money will never get to spend that money. Everyone needs to find a balance between saving and spending.

If you invest a 100 bucks right now...in 30 years how much extra is that really going to be worth? 100 thousand (just guessing)?

There is a certain point where you have to say that a 100 thousand extra dollars is not really going to change my lifestyle when I retire but it might make my life a little more enjoyable right now.

trirunner wrote:

That's why Flagpole is so annoying...he seems like he lives a very very boring life because all he cares about is money.

What the hell? I just told a guy in another thread that if it were ME I would spend the extra $416 in gas it will take for him to vacation at The Grand Canyon this summer (he had decided against it based on the cost of gas).

I hardly ONLY care about money. I'm taking two vacations with the family this summer -- one to Sanibel Island, FL (and it's not cheap either) and one to Washington DC (with a side trip to Hershey Park in PA). I already went on my dime to Portland, OR earlier this spring, and I've got a late fall/early winter trip to Florida with my buddies (guy road trip) planned.

I have two kids. I have a dog. My wife is a stay-at-home mom making NO INCOME. I have cable internet and finally now at age 41 cable television. I have several musical instruments that cost lots of money. I upgraded my computer this past winter when I didn't HAVE to. I'm going to put in a patio with a fire pit this summer, and I'm probably going to get a new 48" across (or so) television by the end of the year.

Dude, if I only cared about money I wouldn't have had kids, and my wife would be WORKING outside the home, and I sure in hell wouldn't have a dog that will cost me an additional $200 to take care of when I'm gone to Sanibel Island for a week (and then more on food, fence for the yard, vet bills, etc.). I just plan how to spend my money and how to invest it.

Just not sure really how my life gets declared boring every once in a while. We take one big vacation each summer and then at least one other small one.

I am debt free except for the house. I guess that makes me boring. Exciting people have credit card debt I guess.

THE Question Asker wrote:

While someone like Flagpole Willy may use money for validation...

What do you mean by that? I don't "use money" for validation. Validation of what? The thing is that too many of you think I'm just like you, and so when I talk about money you think I'm just bragging or being holier than thou (because that's how YOU would be). I talk about money and investing for two reasons:

1) I am passionate about it and I know a lot about how to do it the right way.

2) I want to provide some knowledge to those who need it (and MOST Americans need it) so that they don't fall into the many money traps I've seen people fall into. If just one person ever changes the way they look at money and starts investing 15% of their income or so so that they have a decent retirement income, then I'll be happy. Those of you who say I have a dull life because I advocate investing 15% of your income just either have your head in the sand about how much money you will need when you're old, or you don't know how to do math, or something. What I advocate is hardly radical, and quite honestly, for those of you 35+, if you haven't done any other investing yet, 15% isn't going to be enough for a DECENT retirement. Boatloads of people in the US with large household incomes who can't get any financial traction because they bought a house that was too expensive and cars that are too expensive and every gadget and service known to man. It's a shame.

thought police wrote:

I really have a hard time believing that most adults cannot put together a couple thousand to invest. I really do. Are you really living paycheck to paycheck and living frugally? You can't find a way to save $100/month, somehow someway?

Are you age 25 or older, been working for several years and you don't have even a couple grand to show for it?

I find this truly difficult to believe. If it is indeed true, then it's a shame.

It is true and I know plenty of other people in the same boat. I couldn't afford college and I have a family. I completely live paycheck to paycheck.

same boat wrote:

thought police wrote:

I really have a hard time believing that most adults cannot put together a couple thousand to invest. I really do. Are you really living paycheck to paycheck and living frugally? You can't find a way to save $100/month, somehow someway?

Are you age 25 or older, been working for several years and you don't have even a couple grand to show for it?

I find this truly difficult to believe. If it is indeed true, then it's a shame.

It is true and I know plenty of other people in the same boat. I couldn't afford college and I have a family. I completely live paycheck to paycheck.

Lots of people are in the boat of living paycheck to paycheck, but that doesn't mean they have to stay there long term. Find ways to live more frugally -- cheaper cars, cheaper housing. Find ways to make more money -- work extra, educate yourself in some way so you can get a better job. You are behind the 8-ball a little bit without a college education, but you could get some other kind of education to make you more valuable in the workplace.

No one improves their position in life if they continue doing what they've always done.

Also, now that you have a family to support going to college may not be the way, but I reject the idea that people can't afford to go to college. Community colleges are CHEAP, and you can go there for 2 years and transfer to a state university. You can even go part time and work part time while finishing the degree. Student loans help with paying too. Hell, go to California and live there long enough to be a resident and then go to school there -- SUPER CHEAP.

srsly? wrote:

I dislike you already.

You've assumed that there are only two things in the system oil stock and oil. Yet we all know oil prices affect a large portion of all other things we pay for. So to say that the cost of oil over that span is only $1500 is just false. You also failed to acount for inflation over the past 5 years.

The difference in gas expenditures isn't only present in buying gas, considering gas and oil prices affect a ton of other commodities.

No reason to dislike, but go ahead if you want. I am well aware that rising oil prices affects the price I/you/we all pay for a plethora of goods and services. I was trying to keep it simple by focusing on gasoline prices, which is what most people here (and in general) seem to enjoy whining about.

In regard to inflation - the increase in the price of gas is due to many things - including inflation. If you use the profit from my Conoco Phillips example to purchase gasoline, then inflation has already been factored in. If you use the profit to buy something else, then inflation has to be factored in. But you'd still be MUCH better off than if you did nothing. Which was the whole point of my post in the first place.

Flagpole wrote:

What do you mean by that? I don't "use money" for validation. Validation of what?

Whoa nelly... the second half of the comment MAY include you too, "this sort of person may understand the forces that are attempting to extract his/her money." Judging from your 2) point, you do understand those forces. I am a Flagpole Willy supporter. You write good stuff to help. I wasn't necessarily saying that you specifically use money for validation. You say you don't, enough said.

Since you bring up validation... this is something I came across recently in "emotional travels". Men commonly need validation for their sense of self worth. "Look honey, I fixed the ". Honey says "great job", he is happy and the cycle is complete. If she said nothing, he would feel worthless. Simple and obvious, right? It could also be possessions... what use is it to have a nice car if no one sees it? Women have their own issues and mechanisms, one symptom being "retail therapy".

So, Flagpole Willy, while you are totally correct that most people need knowledge regarding their money, I say that is only part of the picture. Marketers know about these principals of validation, self-worth, etc. and exploit it. They don't use logic to extract money from people, instead, low level emotion. Far more powerful and will bypass any logic or knowledge. Maybe you do this already with people, asking them WHY they spend their money using an emotional point of view. What feelings do they get/need/want from their spending habits. Maybe you can get them to feel good about saving and spending wisely. Just a thought.

Flagpole wrote:

I am debt free except for the house. I guess that makes me boring. Exciting people have credit card debt I guess.

Finally! Someone who gets it.

THE Question Asker wrote:

So, Flagpole Willy, while you are totally correct that most people need knowledge regarding their money, I say that is only part of the picture. Maybe you do this already with people, asking them WHY they spend their money using an emotional point of view.

Well, perhaps I haven't done it well enough, because I often do question here WHY people spend money they way they do. WHY buy a new car right out of college? WHY get the largest mortgage you are told you can afford by the mortgage company? What DOES an extra $500 a month buy you that you would trade that for a million plus when you are done working?

You are correct that people spend emotionally, but they also spend without thinking. New college graduates aren't necessarily in the position to have the same lifestyle that their parents did, but yet they feel entitled to it; more and more each year even. Cable television is NOT a necessity. Super cool cell phones with all the bells and whistles are NOT a necessity - you can get really cheap plans. New cars are NOT a necessity for anyone. Buying a home with a lot of other debt still is NOT a good idea. Yet people do it. Some of that is emotional buying -- you are right about that. Some of it though is just the result of not thinking. People believe that debt is just a way of life. "$5,000 in credit card debt is NOTHING." I've heard people say that. Most Americans have twice that level of credit card debt plus student load debt and car debt and on and on. It's crazy. Just because MOST people have that kind of debt doesn't mean it is OK. I sleep very well at night knowing that the bulk of my income isn't going toward interest to a credit card company or a car company. I honestly wish more people would be able to also. I like to see people that are happy and content. Debt has a way of getting in the way of that.

Very important point, emotion precludes logic. Spending emotionally and spending logically are mutually exclusive. Thinking is conscious and logical, emotions are subconscious and illogical. Programming someone to spend and save using logic, such as showing them numbers on paper, is going to be difficult if they have already been programmed to spend emotionally. However, reprogramming the emotions of spending and saving will, IMHO, be easier. For example, getting someone to always feel like they never have enough money and too much debt. More thoughts.

I consider that blood money and do NOT want to put one penny of my money into the pocket of Lee Raymond or other oil execs who are taking home 200 million a year, not to mention foreign countries, anti-semites and terror sponsors who want to see the US suffer and fail.

THE Question Asker wrote:

Very important point, emotion precludes logic. Spending emotionally and spending logically are mutually exclusive. Thinking is conscious and logical, emotions are subconscious and illogical. Programming someone to spend and save using logic, such as showing them numbers on paper, is going to be difficult if they have already been programmed to spend emotionally. However, reprogramming the emotions of spending and saving will, IMHO, be easier. For example, getting someone to always feel like they never have enough money and too much debt. More thoughts.

I agree with what you are saying about emotional spenders. I don't think ALL of those that do so are emotional spenders though. Some people just get in the mindset that debt is always going to be there. Their parents have always had debt, they hear that you need two incomes to make it in this world, they hear that the average American has more than $10,000 in credit card debt and that the average 45-year-old has less than $25,000 saved for retirement. For some people it just takes exposure to another point of view. For some it requires hitting bottom (car repo, eviction due to no paying rent, etc.). For some though, there is no hope -- they will have to make it on Social Security.

Flagpole wrote:

[quote]THE Question Asker wrote:

I agree with what you are saying about emotional spenders. I don't think ALL of those that do so are emotional spenders though. Some people just get in the mindset that debt is always going to be there. Their parents have always had debt, they hear that you need two incomes to make it in this world, they hear that the average American has more than $10,000 in credit card debt and that the average 45-year-old has less than $25,000 saved for retirement. For some people it just takes exposure to another point of view. For some it requires hitting bottom (car repo, eviction due to no paying rent, etc.). For some though, there is no hope -- they will have to make it on Social Security.

Listen to what you said about those that believe there is no hope (...some people get in the mindset...) Again, some feeling results from these beliefs. It will always come down to the emotions, feelings, and subconscious. The remedy would always be advice that installs feelings that yield positive cash flow. (Picture a reservoir that is almost empty, imagine being thirtsy, whenever you want to buy something, see the dry reservoir and imagine being thirsty.. hahahahaha!) These tactics are no different than a commercial selling something.

As far as those with no hope on SS you mention, my Mom fits that perfectly. She spends from the hip with pure emotion and feeling and rarely seems to question what she is doing. She was clearly programmed to consume. I control what I give her and give her clear bounds with the money I give her. It is too late to change her. The grip QVC has on women is insane!

I did read your post. It actually seemed like you were contributing $12,000 (6k into each of your IRA and your wife's) but decided to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Try to write more carefully.

Now go back to slowing plodding along at the end of your triathlon.

Flagpole, what is your approximate net worth? Just curious. How much of it is in stocks, bonds, cash, real estate, etc? If you don't want to say how much, how about just ratios for each category?

I dont have the money to buy a cheaper car without going into more debt and then car wont be cheaper at all. I dont have the money to move to california even if the wife was willing. I don't have the money or time to go to community college. I know you reject the idea but your rejection doesnt magically create money or time for me. I wake up early, go to work, come home late and put the kids to bed while my wife gets her sanity back for an hour or so. Then if I have the energy I go for a run and go to bed. Most times I go to bed. We already shop at the wholesale club, we dont go on vacations. We even do what we can to get second hand clothes and goods.

I was a dum dum when I was younger so I have no one to blame but myself for where i am. I know that. I do what I can to earn extra money on weekends. But I don't have a few thou to put into stocks anymore than most people I know

Mr. Robott Mann wrote:

Flagpole, what is your approximate net worth? Just curious. How much of it is in stocks, bonds, cash, real estate, etc? If you don't want to say how much, how about just ratios for each category?

Well, not going to get into the new worth thing, but the other is...

87% stocks in good growth stock mutual funds within two separate retirement accounts and one non-retirement mutual fund, split about evenly in the following ways: Growth; Growth and Income; Aggressive Growth; International. I use Vangard, Fidelity, and my non-retirement mutual fund is American Funds.

13% in bonds. Might seem a tad high for someone who is just 41, but I'm fine with it for now. I had NO bonds at all until age 35. I'll keep it at 13% and not increase it for a while yet. I plan to retire at age 59 1/2 if not earlier, so it's not as early as it seems perhaps to have a position in bonds. I know some people are against bonds completely

The above is what I have INVESTED. In addition to that, I have 6 months of expenses in cash in a money market account, and I own almost half of my house but do not currently have any other real estate. I plan to own my house outright before my eldest enters college in 7 years.

I would not necessarily recommend what I have done to you or anyone else though. First of all, I've been investing for a long time. I'm invested the way I am currently more just for giggles than anything else. You would be wise to just invest in index funds really; I used to be invested that way and will likely go back to that at some point -- or maybe not. I'm diversified enough that I'll get close to what an index fund does anyway, but it is HARD to beat an index fund.

If I suddenly came into a good chunk of money, I would pay off my house and put any remaining into my non-retirement mutual fund. Wishful thinking though.