He never held it as the course was short. It should have been Derek Clayton then Deek.
He never held it as the course was short. It should have been Derek Clayton then Deek.
For one, Salazar never refers to himself as the former WR holder.
What AlsGaylover says is wrong. Everyone knew the course was short. It was never considered to be the WR.
I think it was accepted for awhile. Or at least it took a long time to ratify. I seem to recall thinking, "after all that time, NOW they disallow it."
After the 2:08:13 Salazar ran in 1981 was found to be on a slightly short course, Fred Lebow officially declared (I think that's even how he put it) that he would consider it a world record anyway. They don't make a big deal of it, but the New York Road Runners still considers it to have been a world record. They list it on their "world record progression" without any further explanatory comment.
clayon's wr in antwerp may have been run on on course as short by as much as 1km
you can search for it here using various terms such as "clayton", "antwerp", "short"
http://mb.trackandfieldnews.com/discussion/search.php
anyhows, apparently architecture changed soon after, so google earth-map fly-unzipping wont get you the length
alberto has intrinsic claim to fastest marathon guy ever at the time - he unlikely ran on shorter course than clayton
disagree wrote:
I think it was accepted for awhile. Or at least it took a long time to ratify. I seem to recall thinking, "after all that time, NOW they disallow it."
New York was always a point-to-point course. It could never be a world best, regardless of the results of the measurement.
The facts wrote:
New York was always a point-to-point course. It could never be a world best, regardless of the results of the measurement.
Well, it wasn't *always* point to point. Initially it was run as laps of Central Park.
AlsGayLover wrote:You know someone is going for a WR attempt and you don't follow the rules... good grief. Amature Hour.
What's truly amateur is the inability to be able to spell amateur.
Back in 1981, people didn't care much about what was point-to-point and what wasn't.
NYRR still credits Alison Roe with a world record on the same day as Salazar's.
The facts wrote:New York was always a point-to-point course. It could never be a world best, regardless of the results of the measurement.
that's bs
overall drop is all that counts
Dusty Bones wrote:
Back in 1981, people didn't care much about what was point-to-point and what wasn't.
NYRR still credits Alison Roe with a world record on the same day as Salazar's.
NYRRC has no authority to credit anyone with records.
it met the standards at the time he ran it...it did not meet the new standards...clayton's antwerp run would not have met the standards held for nyc 1981.
Did I SAY they had any authority?
Does any one know where along the course the measurement mistake was made. The course was so well documented it is even hard to figure out where a measurement mistake could result in being short enough to disallow a record(point-point rule gets it an */a regardless). Was the start moved significantly in 1981?
wineturtle wrote:
Does any one know where along the course the measurement mistake was made. The course was so well documented it is even hard to figure out where a measurement mistake could result in being short enough to disallow a record(point-point rule gets it an */a regardless). Was the start moved significantly in 1981?
What aren't you understanding about 'short course'?
1) Can you point to where AlSal refers to himself in that manner?
2) I am not sure then the WR standards for the marathon went to effect regarding point to point, but I do not think that was an issue then. ALso, if I recall, a point to point course can be a record course if certain criteria are met (start finish separated by less than 30% of the race distance, some level of acceptable elevation drop, no aiding wind).
I believe the problem with course measurement was a disagreement over how the portion in Central Park should be measured. It's very meandering in spots, so there was disagreement over what the acceptable direct route was.
Banned in Brooklyn wrote:
wineturtle wrote:Does any one know where along the course the measurement mistake was made. The course was so well documented it is even hard to figure out where a measurement mistake could result in being short enough to disallow a record(point-point rule gets it an */a regardless). Was the start moved significantly in 1981?
What aren't you understanding about 'short course'?
When I say well documented I mean every intersection(366 of them)every mile marker with an approx measurement(=/- 5yds) to nearest fire hydrant and enclosing intersections- with a landmark and street address if possible has been recorded to back up the vatious Jones Counter measures(ie 1978 4 bikes full course starting at base of Verrizano, add two more 2 bike measures recovering the route on another day). DrPaul Milvey riding the course double checkiny my intersection and mile marker reports.Just for fun I even recorded the odometer of the freekin paint truck that put down the blue line. I would call that well documented and reason enough to ask if any one knew where the 1981 crew screwed up. That course is really pretty much you can not get from x to y without running along the measured route. I can only think of a displaced start, a really gross misrouting along a mile piece Ft Greene or another in LIC that as some potential shortning possibilities but every thing else is really super straight forward.
Wineturtle, you're a joke. Would you please explain on what day of the year the course is completely clear and tangent-to-tangent measurements are possible? Even on marathon day you can't do it. If you are off by any teeny amount, the course measurement will always be long, which means that the actual course is short.
ventolin wrote:
The facts wrote:New York was always a point-to-point course. It could never be a world best, regardless of the results of the measurement.that's bs
overall drop is all that counts
wind counts too, lol