that's no big surprise as coe probably had probably the quickest open 400 speed of any 1500 guy in history
using this & looking at his '81 season :
he actually ran 1'41.73 / 3'47.33 but his 1500 best that year was only 3'31.95, but he was very unfortunate that day as the pacer went off at a suicidal pace of ~ 50s & 1'49 & then left coe to run solo the last 700m - he was worth many secs faster than 3'31.95 that day in an ideally paced race
using above :
1'41.73 / 3'47.33 ->
~ 45.27
2'11.66
3'29.76
however neither his 800 or mile that year was ideally run : he went out too fast in the 800 at ~ 49.5 & then 75.0 ( latter is 1'40 pace ) & faded to a 1'41.73 - he wouda been better off to go thru in about 50 - 50.5 & then 75.5 - 76.0 & probably come back stronger in last 200 for maybe a 1'41.5
similarly, his 3'47.33 looked about worth a 3'46.5 with ideal pace judgement
so,
1'41.5 / 3'46.5 ->
~ 45.25
2'11.30
3'29.02
interesting observations :
- he was certainly capable of <3'30 that year in an ideal race ( & close to 3'29-flat )
- his 1k wr was nowhere near what he shouda run
- for this topic, his hypothetical open 400 was ~ 45.2 ( meaning no other specific training for 400 that year, but just running a season of 400s that year, a time of ~ 45.2 woud not have been a surprise )
in a slow 1500/mile he'd have slaughtered just about any guy in history over the last lap as he was bringing low-45 speed to the last lap
ventolin wrote:
that's no big surprise as coe probably had probably the quickest open 400 speed of any 1500 guy in history
using this & looking at his '81 season :
http://www.jundo.co.uk/he actually ran 1'41.73 / 3'47.33 but his 1500 best that year was only 3'31.95, but he was very unfortunate that day as the pacer went off at a suicidal pace of ~ 50s & 1'49 & then left coe to run solo the last 700m - he was worth many secs faster than 3'31.95 that day in an ideally paced race
using above :
1'41.73 / 3'47.33 ->
~ 45.27
2'11.66
3'29.76
however neither his 800 or mile that year was ideally run : he went out too fast in the 800 at ~ 49.5 & then 75.0 ( latter is 1'40 pace ) & faded to a 1'41.73 - he wouda been better off to go thru in about 50 - 50.5 & then 75.5 - 76.0 & probably come back stronger in last 200 for maybe a 1'41.5
similarly, his 3'47.33 looked about worth a 3'46.5 with ideal pace judgement
so,
1'41.5 / 3'46.5 ->
~ 45.25
2'11.30
3'29.02
interesting observations :
- he was certainly capable of <3'30 that year in an ideal race ( & close to 3'29-flat )
- his 1k wr was nowhere near what he shouda run
- for this topic, his hypothetical open 400 was ~ 45.2 ( meaning no other specific training for 400 that year, but just running a season of 400s that year, a time of ~ 45.2 woud not have been a surprise )
in a slow 1500/mile he'd have slaughtered just about any guy in history over the last lap as he was bringing low-45 speed to the last lap
I think you need less time calculating seconds of others and more time running miles yourself.
i'm quite happy with a brisk 2 mile walk there-'n'-back from the pub 5 times/week :)
Well you should double your mileage then...
not feasible
next pub is 3 miles further down the road :(
No, go twice a day!
British Teeth:
wilson kip went out in 48.3 and still ran a 1:41
Quit picking on ventolin, I love his posts. He has got a wealth of athletics knowledge and was contributing to the thread topic.
Speaking of which, yes Seb could most likely dust anyone in a tactical 1500. I still do not see how KB factors into the discussion.
Not doubting that Coe had amazing finishing speed, but in '86 he was outkicked by Cram off of a very slow pace at the Euro Champs 1500m (3:40 race w/50 sec last lap). Although not in the same form as he was in '81, Coe did run 3:29.77 that year so he wansn't far off of his peak. Cram did not have nearly the same 400m speed as Coe.
in a slow 1500/mile he'd have slaughtered just about any guy in history over the last lap as he was bringing low-45 speed to the last lap
That's not even that good of a race to see his closing speed. Watch this race in Olso in 84...the last 100m is amazing..but more amazing is his freshness after the race.
Californian wrote:
Not doubting that Coe had amazing finishing speed, but in '86 he was outkicked by Cram off of a very slow pace at the Euro Champs 1500m (3:40 race w/50 sec last lap).
True, but Coe ran a a faster last lap. He was too far back and had to run too wide to catch Cram, however.
ventolin wrote:
in a slow 1500/mile he'd have slaughtered just about any guy in history over the last lap as he was bringing low-45 speed to the last lap
That's typical mindless hyperbole in the extreme, Seb never ran within 1.5 seconds of "low-45" in a race nor within a second in a relay.
Coe ran his 46+ some 2 years from his best form. Note that he ran this 400m PB from a standing start and soon after ran a 45.5 4x400m relay split. At his very best, he'd have been down there near 45 flat on the relay.
dsrunner wrote:
Coe ran his 46+ some 2 years from his best form. Note that he ran this 400m PB from a standing start and soon after ran a 45.5 4x400m relay split. At his very best, he'd have been down there near 45 flat on the relay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_NeFn1qlqo
Thanks ds!
Did Webb run like a 10.6 the final 100m?
dsrunner wrote:
Coe ran his 46+ some 2 years from his best form. Note that he ran this 400m PB from a standing start and soon after ran a 45.5 4x400m relay split. At his very best, he'd have been down there near 45 flat on the relay.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_NeFn1qlqo
He ran 1:42.33 the year (1979) he ran his fully auto 400 PR of 46.86 and relayed a hand-timed 45.5 (or 45.7, depending on the source). For non-sprinters, it's typical to add 1 second to 400 relay times, as unlike with sprinters, they have relatively poor acceleration--in other words he was probably capable of about 46.50 in 1979. In 1981 he took @ 1.6 seconds off his mile PR, 1.3 seconds off his 1000 PR and .6 seconds off his 800 PR, with most of his improvement coming from improved strength. It would be silly, therefore, to credit him with more than about .2 seconds off his converted 1979 400 relay best. In other Coe, at his "very best" (1981) was probably capable of about 46.20-46.30 out of the blocks.
What was Coe's 200m PR? I remember it being somewhere in the range of 21.x, but of course that is a pretty big range.
"probably the quickest open 400 speed of any 1500 guy in history"
-i'm not so sure. i believe ryun ran a 46.? split on a mile relay leg at ku one year. some of the old timers should be able to verify or negate that.