Kenyan changing citizenship.

Another great post and comment by Renato. He has said consistently that Shaheen changed countries for the certainty and predictability of being able to compete when and where he wanted.

There have been numerous criticisms of the Kenyan system by knowlegeable people like Brother Colm.

However, the main point is this; this is their sole means of livlihood. We cannot question their right to move and succeed, even though it is frustrating to many of us and arguably bad for the sport in the long run.(But that is another debate)

Totally agree - Its perfectly acceptable to change your nationality for a better paying job or lifestyle.

Why treat athletics any differently to other professions?

Its also true that many of the countries being critical are guilty of the same practice.

I understand both sides of the argument but isn't most of the money these athletes will make be made on the european circuit where nationality isn't a problem.

also the argument about being looked after better i don't really see, if these athletes have reached the standard where they are wanted by other countries then i'm sure they can afford or are getting medical back-up from agents etc.

It will be a great day when the "Canadian" distance squad is nothing more than a bunch of Kenyan imports who are merely chasing money - and when the "national" record holder has moved on to his or her 3rd country in the last decade.

C'mon Renato, tell the truth - the more money the athletes make, the more money you make.

Testing123 wrote:

Totally agree - Its perfectly acceptable to change your nationality for a better paying job or lifestyle.

Why treat athletics any differently to other professions?

Its also true that many of the countries being critical are guilty of the same practice.

I don't know of a lot of people who switch nationality for a job; also, if they do I would assume they actually live in the country. Many of these athletes I believe have never set foot in Qatar.

Not sure where Renato gets the idea that "Qataris" are being singled out for criticism. Criticism of "Bahrainis" has always been much more copious and severe.

Let's get one thing straight, as far as the Qataris and Bahrainis are concerned these guys are nothing more than race horses.

This issue is one reason why I would like to see the Olympics and World Championships go to a purely time standard (+ place standard in previous championships) for qualification. The IOC and IAAF could ensure better competition with such a standard as the sole eligability for competeting in Athleteics at at these championships. However many qualify from a any country than so be it. If Kenya has 50 qualified in the marathon then there should be 50 entered if they want. Each athlete will still wear the colors of their country but it takes the whole qualifying/selection fiasco a mute point.

This would take the power out of the hands of the politicos in each country and put it back in the hands of the athletes. The atheletes would be better able to control their own destiny. This would help reduce the necessity or attraction for an athlete to change citizenship to find a way around this selection/trials problem.

As for support of the athlete let clubs and sponsors do that not nations (as we see most nations do it very poorly). I'd love to see more international clubs with kenyans, italians, and americans training together but able to compete wearing their countries colors during the Olympics/World Champs.

Renato:

Here is the problem with Kenyans switching nationalities. Most sports aspire to have a good level of parity. This meaning there is some level of competitiveness amongst all the teams (as much as can be done within means). This encourages audiences to watch. This has been the blue print of many sports.

Most races are held in Europe or America. Now, what do you think, Renato, is the audience's motive to watch a Kenyan-Qatari or a Kenyan-Bahraini? To them, they will still be Kenyan. People don't just want to watch Kenyans performing well in mass numbers, they also want to watch their own country men and women performing well. This is why after Dieter Baumann's departure, European Meets in Germany started losing much of their spectators.

While I admire your willingness to share training information with us, I question what your motives are in terms of saving our sport..which, in case you don't know, is losing popularity every year. Ask yourself, how is Kenyan-Qatari helping the sport? Please, tell me.

Can you explain how that would help grow the sport? You would have scores of east Africans taking up all the available slots for the games, say goodbye to Tegenkamp coming within inches of a medal. And all the smaller countries would be routed out of the sprints because the Americans would take up all the spots.

What's good is that your suggestion would never fly.

the former mobile9 wrote:

Can you explain how that would help grow the sport? You would have scores of east Africans taking up all the available slots for the games, say goodbye to Tegenkamp coming within inches of a medal. And all the smaller countries would be routed out of the sprints because the Americans would take up all the spots.

Why is that a bad thing. Shouldn't championships be about finding out the best at each event. Why have a quota system where unqualified people get in over more qualified people.

As a fan I want to see the best humans race, regardless of where they were born. If Tegencamp isn't one of the fastest then it doesn't belong there. Pure and simple. If some guy from Monogolia can't run under 11 seconds for the 100 meters he doesn't belong in the Olympic 100 meters either. Why is everyone so hung up on what country they are from.

I'll be watching the London Marathon and marveling at a great race and cheering for the guys I like best as people not because they are from southwest lower Metropolis.

The sport of distance running isn't dying in popularity it is changing. Fan support and sponsorship are moving toward road races and marathons and away from Track races. But in all likeliness track races will change and adapt and will experience a resurgence once they do.

People love to see a good race regardless of who is running and track needs to figure out that not as many people/fans can relate to rabbitted timetrial were the lead only changes hands 2 times in the course of 25 laps and the outcome is never in question.

Think about it. Far more fans around the world are excited to watch the London race each year than are excited to watch the Berlin race. Why? Because London has better competition while Berlin is a staged timetrial. That wouldn't change much if all of the competitors were from the same small town in southeast lower estonia or from all the countries of the world.

Nationality is just one small component in the equation. The marketing of the people and personalities and competyitiveness of the race (defending champion vs. defending world champion, etc) is much more important in my eyes.

We have standards that require competitors to meet a certain level of ability, thus they are "among the best in the world".

Can you honestly tell me that just as many Americans would be interested in the Olympic 5000 if ALL the competitors were from Kenya, Ethiopia and Uganda? Or people from Britain if there were so many Americans that Ohruruogu didn't get to run because her entry time wasn't fast enough?

How much more interest is buzzing on this site about London in light of Ryan's participation? And this is one of those hardcore sites. You might say that Hall is justly qualified (and he is) but under your rules, a guy like Meb wouldn't have had a chance in Athens. And yet his silver medal has helped raise awareness about professional track in the US.

Like all pro sports, track needs familiar faces with personality. Geb does this wonderfully. So does Greer, Defar, Mo Greene, etc. A hundred east Africans with limited English skills don't have the same effect. This is why balanced fields (such as those put together by smart race organizers) draw the most publicity.

fan support - there's no freaking fan support! people only come out to watch their fat momma struggle to the finish line.

not as many fans can relate to 50 "Africans" with names that they can't or don't care to pronounce.

These are different points. I fully agree with everybody that so many athletes from the same areas (Eastern Africa) can reduce the interest for athletic competition in the World. People look at big names, in this case is not important their nationality. Everybody knows Gebre or Bekele, like everybody knew Carl Lewis, or Bubka, or Michael Johnson, or Isinbayeva. The fact that a lot of "unknown" names, able running under 13' or 27' or 2:07', can reduce the interest about all track and field, because are not "personage", is true.

But, looking at the problem only under this point of view, WITHOUT TRYING TO FIND SOLUTIONS, apart to blame the change of citizenship, IS A SIMPLE ACT OF OPPORTUNISM.

The most part of activity, for an athlete, is PRIVATE ACTIVITY. For doing this, the athlete must be fit, in top shape and with good technical programs. The fact that many Kenyans or Ethiopians are able to obtain top performances doesn't mean that their training and their strategy is correct. For a top athlete, important is TO LAST, not to run fast for a short period, many times CASUALLY.

So, for example, Kenyan Federation doesn't do ANYTHING for the best Kenyan athletes. If somebody has an injury, he has to solve the problem personally, without any help. Do you think that managers can help REALLY the athletes ? Why a manager must spend money and time for organizing something in Kenya, WHEN IS EASIER TO LOOK FOR THE COMPETITIONS AND TO PUT^ UNDER CONTRACT THE BEST, growing like mushrooms in the bush ?

And, if an athlete is able to run at top level for some month only, after this HE is finish, but the manager can easy find somebody else, replacing him at the same level.

So, Countries like Kenya look for their athletes only when are already ready for winning, not doing anything for giving BASIC knowledhe and assistance when they are very young.

So, if you are a young athlete discovering that have talent, coming from, for example, Mont Elgon, where you were not able to finish your PRIMARY school ; so, YOU CANNOT GO TO AN AMERICAN UNIVERSITY like Bernard Lagat, BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE AN EDUCATION, not for your fault, but because this was your life ; you DON'T HAVE 200 shillings for taking a Matato for going to compete far from your village ; you don't have coach, doctor and any kind of assistance ; and, because SOME ATHLETE IN YOUR VILLAGE INTRODUCE YOU TO A CLUB IN QATAR, that can give you 3,000 USD for running a full winter there, for Qatari Club Championships : WHAT DO YOU GO TO CHOSE ?

Bwelieve me, I live with these boys for the most part of the year. A lot of time I become tired, because to teach professionalism to these guys is almost impossible. BUT, WHEN YOU STAY WITH THEM, YOU KNOW THEIR PROBLEMS, YOU KNOW THEIR CULTURE, YOU KNOW ALL THE SIDES OF THEIR BEHAVIOR, AND YOU NEED TO HELP THEM.

Many people, or Companies, from US make something for helping Africans. There are University coming every year, trying to select good runners, having the title for continuing their studies, BUT THIS IS POSSIBLE ONLY IF YOU HAD, when very young, THE SAME OPPORTUNITY IN EVERY PART OF KENYA. This is not true. The main reason because of the fight after election in Kenya is exactly THAT PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT PART OF KENYA COULDN'T HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY, in school as in their job.

For example, if you are Kikuyu living in the area of Nyahururu, you can have links with Japan, going there with good contracts with Japanese Companies, and you don't need to change citizenship. But, if you are from Rift Valley, you cannot have the same chances.

So, that's the reason because I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY THE ATHLETES THAT HOPE TO CHANGE THEIR LIFE CHANGING CITIZENSHIP.

The problem is another : too many WEAK athletes think that the change of citizenships depends on THEMSELVES, not knowing the rules of the OTHER Country. I had hundreds people asking for Qatar, many of them NOT athletes. This because their life, in Kenya, too many times is not good. When you are poor, you look for everytype of solution, also without knowing laws and rules.

So, we have TWO different problems :

1) THE PROBLEM OF THE ATHLETES LIKE PERSONS, trying to improve their quality of life using their talent, INSIDE THE CURRENT RULES (don't forget that, IF NOT ALL THE PERSONS ARE ATHLETES, ALL THE ATHLETES ARE PERSONS), that allow ANY PEOPLE having the rights to look for changing nationality, ACCORDING TO THE RULES OF THE NEW COUNTRY

2) THE PROBLEM OF NEW RULES IN ATHLETIC, regarding not only everytype of Championship, but EXPECIALLY the private activity, because is not possible to have 15 Africans in the same race in Europe or US.

But, this is my message to ALL the Federations, STOP TO CRY LIKE CROCODILES, not doing anything for the athletes and after accusing when you don't like something.

For example, in these days there are, in Manchester, the World Championships of Swimming, short course. Kenyans had in semifinal of 2 events, and in the final of one, two brothers (Jason and David Dunford), white, sons of English people, studying in USD University. Another swimmer from Zimbabwe (Coventry), won, till now, 2 titles, and of course is white. Everybody knows what is happening at the moment in Zimbabwe. Do you think that Coventry can represent the RIGHT IMAGE of that Country ?

Typical sponsorship deals entail numerous bonus and incentives for placing in Olympic and World championship races.

This creates an incentive for people to switch nationalities in order to maximise the potential money they can make or just survive in most cases.

I can perfectly understand the rationale of a Kenyan switching nationalities to ensure they are able to compete in these races which probably have less depth than their national championship.

In reply to an earlier post about not knowing many people who switch nationalities for a job. That may be true but in most cases your nationality is not critical in your remuneration unlike athletics where it is paramount.

Shorter Fan wrote:

Far more fans around the world are excited to watch the London race each year than are excited to watch the Berlin race. Why?

Where did you get that wrong information from?

dude, why are you writing this crap here. mostly there are high school and college guys posting here. you need to rant someplace where they will make a difference.