10k 1st Stanford or Mt. Sac?

I don't really think you have any better of a shot st Stanford. plenty of competition in both races. However, Mt. SAC might be the way to go since it allows for two additional weeks of training.

2nd Section at the 2nd Stanford is the absolute best bet.

I concur about the 2nd heat at Stanford being the best for a 29 flat guy.

I think you'll have a quality race in either so I guess if would depend on whether or not you want 2 more weeks of training or not. Stanford is definitely deeper though. They had 3 sections, the 3rd section was one of the first events on friday, the 2nd was one of the last on friday, and the 1st section was the last race on saturday. I don't know what the time standards are for each heat but here are results of people close to/near sub 29 from last year, found on trackshark:

Mt Sac (1 section, 49 people total)

1 Songok, Shadrack Tex. A&M-Corpus 28:16.47

2 Coolsaet, Reid Reebok 28:21.86

3 Olmedo, Pablo Unattached 28:22.37

4 Bizuneh, Fasil New Balance 28:25.69

5 Sundell, Steve Unattached 28:28.01

6 Romero, Juan Mexico 28:38.41

7 Bodor, Oliver Western State 28:44.71

8 Gildea, Patrick Nyac 28:45.68

9 Johnson, Jeremy New Mexico 28:47.76

10 Solis, Jesus Adams State 29:06.98

Stanford (1st of 3 secions, 26 people total)

1 Nicodemus Naimadu SR Abilene Christian 28:06.26

2 Stephen Samoei SR Utep 28:07.65

3 Ryan Hall NA Asics. 28:07.93

4 Jason Hartmann Nike- 28:15.22

5 Kevin Chelimo SR Texas Tech 28:21.29

6 Japheth Ng'ojoy JR Utep 28:24.48

7 James Carney NA New Balance. 28:25.24

8 Andrew Lemoncello SR Florida State 28:28.04

9 Ed Torres Reebok" 28:28.30

10 Sean Quigley La Salle 28:29.16

11 Matt Downin NA New Balance- 28:30.53

12 Galen Rupp JR Oregon 28:35.04

13 Adam Goucher NA Nike- 28:43.80

14 Ian Burrell JR Georgia 28:48.78

15 Eric Gillis NA Speed River Tfc 28:52.57

16 Kevin Castille NA Team Eugene 28:53.78

17 Andrew Middleton SR Texas 28:54.87

18 Keith Bechtol SR William & Mary 28:55.57

19 Jeremy Mineau SO Washington 28:57.02

20 Chris Seaton NA Reebok; 28:58.19

21 Trever Ball NA New Balance 29:00.44

22 Shadrack Kiptoo-Biwott SO Oregon 29:00.52

23 Bret Schoolmeester NA Nike- 29:03.89

Stanford (2nd of 3, 29 people total):

1 Powers, Jeff SR Central Michigan 28:43.83

2 Khadraoui, Mohamed SO Iona 28:49.08

3 Rono, Aron SO Azusa Pacific 28:50.81

4 Bauhs, Scotty SO Chico State 28:54.55

5 Hoerr, Trent JR Illinois 28:55.22

6 Kinsella, David SO Portland 28:57.97

7 Dumm, Andrew U of Virginia 28:59.25

8 Batliner, Payton SR Colorado 29:00.33

9 Kirui, Barnabas SO Ole Miss 29:16.39

Winner of 3rd section (18 people total):

1 Ogwaro, Oscar SO East LA College 29:41.30

rojo wrote:

I personally ran at Mt. Sac way back when and guess I'd prefer to take my guys there as it's later in the year, but was told by an sssociate that Stanford was a better race for a guy trying to eke into NCAAs.

Go with your instincts, grasshopper. The first Stanford race can get cold and windy at night. Mt Sac or the 2nd Stanford meet in May would be your best bet. Plus with Ithaca being a very cold place, the extra two to four weeks would increase the chance of Spring weather and benefits afforded by sharp track training.

both Canaday and Hine?

I have nothing against Mt. SAC, and you should go if it fits in better with your training schedule, but the first Stanford meet always has ideal weather conditions for the late races. It's windy during the day, and "cold" and still in the evening. Personally I prefer it to be in the 50's for 10k running, but some people like it warmer. To me, Stanford has perfect 10k weather, and I've run at both Stanford and Mt. SAC.

midwaste wrote:

I have nothing against Mt. SAC, and you should go if it fits in better with your training schedule, but the first Stanford meet always has ideal weather conditions for the late races. It's windy during the day, and "cold" and still in the evening. Personally I prefer it to be in the 50's for 10k running, but some people like it warmer. To me, Stanford has perfect 10k weather, and I've run at both Stanford and Mt. SAC.

Are you trying to say the weather at Mt. Sac is less than ideal? Whenever i"ve been at either meet, the weather has been perfect.

Maybe I'll just get a rabbit though and do it on the east coast at princeton or bucknell. I swear I want to prove it's possible to do on the east coast.

no, it was just a response to Malmo's assertion that the 1st Stanford meet is cold and windy. The weather at Mt. SAC is usually pretty damn good once the sun drops and the winds die down.

Mt. Sac will always have a special place in my heart... Stanford actually is my 2nd favorite.

I have been out to Stanford twice for that meet over the past several years. The weather is very consistent and good for distance running. The years I have not been out there a coaching buddy who had taken runners out there said the weather was spot on as usual. They were 29 minute type guys, and most of the time when they were honest about what they thought their fitness was they usual came in pretty close to what they thought they could. It seems like a choice of how you want to structure that runners season, and not the weather if you are choosing between Mt Sac and Stanford. Good luck!

Hasn't the weather also been pretty good for the Bucknell meet? I think what makes Stanford such a good chance is just the mass of quality guys all going out there for the same reason. If some east coast meet could do that there is no reason it can't happen.

The wild thing is that nobody even knows that rojo is training...

Can weldon make it 1k at your current 10k pace?

likewise, but I think that in the last few years the Mt. SAC meet has made changes that I and many others were not so fond of (running all but the fastest heats during the hot windy afternoon, running high school 5k's under the lights, running high school DMR's under the lights, etc.) For these reasons I became more partial to SI from the perspective of an advocate for post-collegiate/collegiate runners. I think SI did the best job of giving the best opportunities to the most people.

Last year Mt. SAC only ran one 10k. Thankfully they changed it back to two sections this year, but things like that kind of diminished the luster of that meet for me.

I'd go for Stanford for a few reasons.

The track seems a bit nicer and lately the races have been a touch more consistent.

The weather isn't a big deal, it is rarely windy at 10k time in either race. Its more likely that there would be rain at the Stanford meet but people still roll in the rain regardless.

The main reason for Stanford however is that it gives you more of a chance to come back for a second try if necessary. I'd recommend the b section unless the athlete is going to run 28 40 or faster.

Having lived right by there (Bonelli was my major training area) I will note that there is some likelihood of getting a hot and somewhat smoggy day in mid-April. Evening helps, but the smog does get pushed east through the day. However, the potential improvements in air quality over the last decade or two might reduce the smog issue.

midwaste wrote:

no, it was just a response to Malmo's assertion that the 1st Stanford meet is cold and windy. The weather at Mt. SAC is usually pretty damn good once the sun drops and the winds die down.

Prove it can be done on the east coast!

If you are looking East Coast, think about the Sea Ray Relays at Tennessee (April). It is an olympic year so you never know who will show up to those races. In 2004 there were some solid guys running in the 5k and 10k.

Who is planning to run the 5k at the first stanford meet (sub 14:00)?