The training of 2:39 to 2:29 Marathoners tell all

Ran 2:34 in my youth at Rocket city. Decided to run 2 months before when I ran 1:12:56 for 1/2 marathon.

On race day went from 5:40 pace through 21 miles to 5 miles of 6:40's - no gradual dropoff. Did many 15-18 milers, but only 1 20 - in hindsight I would have changed that.

6 days before marathon ran 10 mile race - starting at 5:40 pace for 6 miles, then increased to 5:30 pace last 4. That was big, because I had been running so many 5Ks I had no pace sense at 5:40 - so when went through mile in 5:40 I pumped my fist because I knew I had gone out properly - not too fast. Kept on pace as long as I could.

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2:42-thoner wrote:

If any who have run between 2:39 - 2:29 would/could you compose your training here to see the training traits that allowed you to run "around 6 minute pace" for the marathon, might be interesting to see.

The things that would make this most interesting would be,

1 years training before running that time

2 average weekly distance run, two years before running time

3 peak weekly distance

4 longest run

5 number runs over 20 miles

6 number of miles run weekly at "tempo pace", 10 mi to 1/2mth pace

7 number of miles run weekly at marathon pace

8 number of miles run weekly at or faster than 10k pace

9 average daily pace when not running at tempo, mp or faster than 10k paces, your everyday out the door pace

2:34 at Philly for my first marathon this year. Severely anemic at the time, I found out later. PR for the half of 1:11:44 before that.

1. Averaged 80-85 miles per week with high weeks at 100 for the year before. Just under 4000 miles in total including off weeks at the end of seasons.

2. 85-90 MPW

3. Prior to marathon buildup, 105-110, actually ran slightly lower mileage in marathon training, peaking at a bunch of 95 mile weeks

4. 22 miles once, 20 miles 3 times, lots and lots of 18-19 milers

5. Just one

6. On average, 4-8 in one or two tempo runs

7. Only added these 5 weeks before Philly, ran 8-10 miles per week at this pace.

8. 2-5 miles at this pace.

9. 7:00-8:00 pace, never much faster than 7:00. Being anemic was making this pace slower more than anything.

I started running twice most days in 1973 and had a best marathon of 3:24 at the time. By the end of 1975 I was down to 2:41:35 usually running 100-140 mpw and sometimes up to 155. I just ran at whatever pace I could maintain but was probably running everything 20 seconds either way of 6:00 pace. I did very little in the line of interval work.

From the end of 1975 to the end of 1977 I kept up with that sort of training but had no more PRs. I decided it made no sense to run that much if it wasn't making me faster, so at the end of 1977 I cut out my second run. Mileage dropped to 75-90, pace stayed about the same and surprisingly I had one last round of PRs, culminating with a 2:35:21 marathon in 1979.

I can't see how this is interesting or useful at all. Runners who have run about 2:35 get there in every way imaginable. Some can do it off 30mpw or less, some need 150mpw. So what?

Very valid point made as to how one may arrive at a 2:35,i.e. every way imaginable.

The long run is a key element, however.

My own progression went from a 3:39 initial effort as a 22 year old, to a 2:26 as a 30 year old.

The recipe included lots of cross-training(biking and skiing) hill running and a strenuous construction job.Actual running mileage went from 45 to 60 MPW. 2400 was the most I ever racked up in a year.

Back in the day, Sat. was your race. Sunday's we went 20+. The camaraderie of a group and a few post run beers kept it all fun.

2:30+ Marathoners can be/are functions of talent rather then tried and true methods.

Once you get down to sub 2:20 you must have talent and proper training to reach the top.

Haven't run sub 2:39 yet but that's what I'm training for at the moment. Done a couple of prep races including a 20-mile prog run in 2:00 so I'm on course.

1 years training before running that time

Been running properly around seven years

2 average weekly distance run, two years before running time

I was running around 30 miles

3 peak weekly distance

Biggest week will be 70 miles

4 longest run

20 miles

5 number runs over 20 miles

4 x 20 miles in the bag, and a couple more to come

6 number of miles run weekly at "tempo pace", 10 mi to 1/2mth pace

Six to eight @ lactate

7 number of miles run weekly at marathon pace

This week 14. But previously much less or none

8 number of miles run weekly at or faster than 10k pace

None until now. Will do no more than 3-4 miles pw until taper

9 average daily pace when not running at tempo, mp or faster than 10k paces, your everyday out the door pace

Started at 7:30 and it's now close to 6:30. Do it on heart rate

2:42 is a joke.

soft.

2:28:41 PR, also a 2:29 three years before that

1 years training before running that time

For marathons, 3 years. Total years running, 13.

2 average weekly distance run, two years before running time

This is more usefully answered with my progression (roughly):

avg 50 mpw peak 70s- 2:53 debut (2000)

avg 60 mpw peak 80s- 2:37 run well and hard (2001)

avg 65 mpw peak 100- 2:36 end fade hypothermic (2002)

avg 80 mpw peak 90 more intensity - 2:29 run perfectly (2002)

avg 85-90 mpw peak 105- DNF in Oly trials qualifying attempt, honestly in 2:24ish shape (2003)

2004 - 2:37 in bad heat

2005 - 2:36 severely overtrained off only 1 month at 50 mpw after 2 months more or less off to recover

avg 90-100 mpw for 3 months, 7 of 9 weeks 100+, 20+ of volume MP or faster. Long tempo run, track workout of 4-5 miles of intervals, and fast finish long run each week 3-4 times 20+. Slashed 2+ minutes off 10K PR (sub-31), but got hamstring injury from that race. Could train only intermittently for last month before goal marathon, "jogged" a 2:28. Honestly in 2:21-2:23 shape before injury.

Now I'm running 50-60 mpw and it shows. Unless you have the talent you need the volume. Period.

3 peak weekly distance

4 longest run

5 number runs over 20 miles

6 number of miles run weekly at "tempo pace", 10 mi to 1/2mth pace

7 number of miles run weekly at marathon pace

8 number of miles run weekly at or faster than 10k pace

9 average daily pace when not running at tempo, mp or faster than 10k paces, your everyday out the door pace

I just did 1.52 for 20miles. Hoping to do sub 2.30 next month. Been averaging 80miles a week for last 10 weeks. Tend to do 3 'hard' days a week (generally 2 interval session and a race) plus a long run of arounf 2hrs. The rest of my running is all 'easy' (7.30 - 8 min/miling). In answer to your other questions:

1. 5

2. 60

3. 102

4. 20miles

5. 3

6. maybe 5

7. often 0

8. 15. Tend to do 2 interval sessions a week (10k/5k pace stuff) plus 1 race.

9. 7.45m/mile

That's the point different ways to skin the cat. Instead of all of the internet coaches telling those of us that are close to such a time how to run 2:36, we can see the compiled experiences of REAL life training, talents & thoughts. Don't ruin what could be a great thread.

Jamie S wrote:

I can't see how this is interesting or useful at all. Runners who have run about 2:35 get there in every way imaginable. Some can do it off 30mpw or less, some need 150mpw. So what?

1. three....i ran 2:32 two months after my 20th birthday.

2. 7

3. 102

4. 20

5. 2 at 20

6. 2

7. none

8. 3

9. 6:30-40

this has changed significantly in the best nine years however. i now run over twenty every 10-14 days, average over a hundred a week and do marathon pace every 10-14 days. i ran 2:28 last year, but my 5k pace is 20 seconds faster than a year ago. i think you have to have at least two years of consistent training to start approaching your potential in the marathon. just my $.02.

I find this thread interesting. I still do not know what a "thoner" is but we have been told that "2:42 is a joke" and "soft". So is 2:20 if you are an elite runner. 2:20 certainly is not World Class nor is it even Nationsal Class. Marathon running is a personal thing and we all attack the distance as we see fit. Running is a great sport and hobby!

What the thread does confirm is that there are many ways to train in an attempt to run ones best. I ran in the 2:30s seventeen times between 1962 and 1975 training many different ways but usually running mileage that is considered low by todays runners. The main thing is I usually ran the best I could at the time and had great fun doing it for many many years.

At age 25 I ran two marathons each in 2:32 in a period of six weeks after running slightly less than 2,000 miles of mostly intervals during the year before. My long runs were 17 miles or less.

In 1966 I ran 2:42 after having run 4,445 miles of hard intervals the year before. In 1970 I ran 1,745 miles and 2:38. In 1971, I ran 2:31.30 three times in 8 weeks off of 3,363 miles. In 1972, it was 2:35 off of 2,526 miles and in 1973 it was 2:29 at age 36 off of 2,715 miles for the year. Finally, in 1975 at age 36 I ran 2:36 while running 2,398 miles. In the 1970s my training was one long run a week (20 to 28 miles) and a little fartlek while running free.

And now for some of my opinions. I ran my first marathon in my mid 20s after training for over 4 years and establishing personal bests as low as I could get them. I believe that is best to mature, strengthen and get out as much speed as one has in the shorter events before racing 26 miles. I know this may not be what is best for some elites and that I was kucky in that I could race to win in my day. I never ran a marathon for time but ran to place as highly as I could by often going out with the leaders. It was all great fun. I hope you all enjoy your hobby of running as much as I did.

Great read Orville.

You nailed the maturity issue down tight.My first go as a 22year old was ill fated in that after going through 20 miles in 1:57, I bonked and essentially walked in to collect my t-shirt @3:39. That scared me off for 5 years. But the second stab at the 26.2 was a smoothly run 2:46, and I was hooked. The next 5 years I covered the distance 37 more times. Not all were race efforts, but with some favorable fall weather was able to run 3 in seven weeks. Each one faster than the last, in 1980.

What I seemed to find was the ability to run that far frequently, if I only went 95% effort. Once I "put the hammer down" for an all out race ,recovery took at least 3 months.

Currently I'm in the 5th year of a comeback after 20 years off in between first and second careers.Sub 2:30's are a far off dream, but I am bound and determined to go under 3:00 one more time.

And ,yes it was all great fun!!

Orville Atkins great post, Thank You!