Romney Speech

Neb wrote:

If all we were doing is "holding" them you might have a point as well - but the evidence shows that we were basically torturing them. Torturing innocent people is about as immoral as you can get.

Romney didn't say anything about changing what happens inside guantanamo. He said he's double it - meaning that he had no problem with whatever was done there.

I have never heard him say he favors torture only that he wants to double the size of Gitmo.

Some of us think that double the size means to make it twice as big. I didn't realize it meant all that other stuff too.

You people are stupid. What he meant of course is that the cells are too cramped and should be doubled in size. He's also going to add a nice gym with a squash court, lap pool and a jacuzzi. Romney is da bomb.

I like how guys like Neb throw around this crap and seem to think Republicans are the trouble behind everything. They don't realize that substate asymmetrical warfare is a revolutionary thing that has never been dealt with before in a theatre this large. Obviously intelligence is going to be 100% correct. People blame Bush for charging Saddam on falsities, but don't realize what was stirring in the regime as far as al qaeda network support. Look, the only real reason Iraq has been a problem is that Phase IV (post Baathist Iraq) was poorly planned for, or couldn't have been planned for. You can't compare the occupation and liberation of Iraq to that of Germany or Japan because people like Garner and Bremer in control of post-war operations have never seen the likes of asymmetrical (substate) war. The Iraqi army was wiped out to tourniquet the rise of another dictatorship, and no interim gov't could be set up for fear of riotous dissent and lack of legitimacy.

The Information Age has also made intelligence harder, not easier. Sure, we have lots of ways to gain knowledge, but the enemy has just as many to evade our detection.

What I'm saying is, if you have a problem with a couple of innocent people being sent to Guantanamo, and our government trying it's best to sort out those innocent from guilty, then please, don't vote. To put it nicely.

intelligence isn't*** going to be

Sorry to post again, but this newfound American crusade on morality, battling the injustices of "torture!" and "environment! bad corporations!" strikes me as a bit funny when Nader was able to make a push with the Green Party a couple years back. Moral decay is rampant in America and that's why someone like Huckabee can make some noise (not that I would vote for him).

It's funny because civilian lives lost in combat are just terrible! When bombing today is much more efficient and far less devastating. People like Slobodan could tout American hostility as outrageous because of the loss of two civilian lives...but in WW2, whole cities raised weren't even making headlines.

Just like torture is nothing new. You think Guantanamo is the first time this has happened? It's the first you know about, maybe. And whose to say retrieving information this way hasn't saved hundreds or thousands of American lives in the past? Think of it like Hiroshima. Sure, it took a huge toll on lives but think of how many it saved, if, on the other hand, America had not resorted to atomic arms and had done war with Japan the old fashioned way. It's estimated that the a-bomb actually saved tons and tons of lives.

So, if you're asking me do I take the loss of the few for the benefit of the many? Sure.