Life Insurance?

Charles Darwin wrote:

chuck d wrote:

you're getting out of your league here, flagpole. your investment advice is fine. it's not like you're giving out elaborate advice then - and it's good to keep things simple. but don't start getting into tax or estate planning. you don't have the first clue.

I often agree with you chuck, but you so often come off as an asshole. You can say the exact same thing in multiple ways and you seem to always choose the way of the ass.

I know there are a lot of jerks on this board, but of the regular posters who use the same name, I would like to expect more out of those ones.

maybe you should not ascribe tone to posts on the internet when there are no obvious indicators that someone is being an asshole. studies have shown we suck at it. and, even if you do manage to guess right, isn't it a heck of a lot easier to just assume everyone is writing in a congenial tone?

chuck d wrote:

no, i'm not wrong.

Yes you are.

Once again Flagpole you really know what your talking about.

Regional Leader wrote:

Once again Flagpole you really know what your talking about.

You are correct sir. Thanks for noticing.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your are not among the wealthy that is passing huge sums of money from one generation to another. Your a loudmouth who claims to know everything. Before you go running your mouth sit down and talk with a estate lawyer.

This is exactly what I do for my clients.

The you go to your regular day job at Wal Mart.

I have a head cold wrote:

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your are not among the wealthy that is passing huge sums of money from one generation to another. Your a loudmouth who claims to know everything. Before you go running your mouth sit down and talk with a estate lawyer.

Yes I do know what I'm talking about. There are WAY better ways to deal with estate taxes than to buy a whole life insurance policy. Not good. Never. Not ever. It's the Who's Who (which isn't good) of investing.

I doubt very much if you have ever dealt with complex estate issues for the wealthy. You are such a fool to come on a public message board and declare yourself all knowing.

There is a very good reason why Congress regulated the amount of money people can dump into life insurance products. Then again I am sure you were a member of Congress and played a major role in shaping the legislation.

let it go, mate. we've cast enough suspicion over his assertions that i imagine reasonable people realize that it's not quite so clear-cut as flagpole wants to make it seem. anyway, it's not like there's anyone posting on this board who would benefit from the inclusion of such policies in their planning that would be taking flagpole's assertions and actually applying them.

I have a head cold wrote:

There is a very good reason why Congress regulated the amount of money people can dump into life insurance products. Then again I am sure you were a member of Congress and played a major role in shaping the legislation.

So, because the insurance lobby is strong is a reason to put money into whole life? Oh, I see. Everything Congress does is of benefit to YOU?! Dude, you've been suckered by the insurance industry. Only a life insurance company or someone who is in the life insurance company's pocket would recommend whole or universal life. If you have one such policy, you've made a horrible decision. Go buy term life insurance, and then cash out that whole life policy -- you will only pay taxes on what it has earned above and beyond what you put into it, and believe it it won't be much. It's never too late to undo a bad decision.

You can set up a will that declares that estate taxes are to be paid by the sale of the residuary estate. OR you can specify which items are to be sold to pay for those estate taxes. You DO NOT need to have a whole life policy to do this. Just because some do doesn't mean it is the best way. You can have a BIGGER estate if you don't waste money on a whole life policy. Sure then the taxes will be bigger, but you'll have more money to cover it.

Now, I am 100% right, but I don't feel the need to try to convince you. I like to help people when I can, and that's what I'm trying to do here, but I won't argue with you or any other whole life supporter forever.

My guess is that either you sell whole life or someone you respect does, or you own a whole life policy. No one else would ever support such a horrible investment. I haven't even spelled out all the ways it is horrible.

chuck d wrote:

let it go, mate. we've cast enough suspicion over his assertions that i imagine reasonable people realize that it's not quite so clear-cut as flagpole wants to make it seem. anyway, it's not like there's anyone posting on this board who would benefit from the inclusion of such policies in their planning that would be taking flagpole's assertions and actually applying them.

Funny Chuck d, but you haven't done anything other than say I don't know what I'm talking about. Care to elobarate? I'll dispute anything you say about reasons to buy whole life.

It is bad, bad, bad. Well, not bad for insurance salesmen.

Well, atleast I'm not some single loser wishing he did something with his life. Can't break 19:00 for a 5K anymore and calls himself a coach. HAHAHAHAHAHAAA F*** you Andrew

flagpole, it wasn't meant to be funny, though i'm glad you enjoyed it. it's not worth either of our times to get into a pissing match over something about which no one on this board (probably including you) cares or which will ever benefit anyone who is reading or arguing over it. laying out the complex scenarios under which it works and responding to it would take both of us away from far, far more important things.

Every insurance sale is a complex scenario, and the agents want it that way. Twenty five years ago, an insurance salesman stopped by and tried to pursuade me to buy a policy. I didn't understand a word of his presentation, and I already had an MA in math. I told him that I would buy a policy from him if he explained, to my satisfaction, every detail of the policy, and could explain exactly, to my satisfaction, where every penny would go. It took him 3 months, and he made meny trips to his supervisor, who in turn had to go to his supervisor. Eventually he explained every detail of a universal life policy, and I bought one. Most of my insurance now is term, however.

Most of any life insurance presentation is purposely misleading. An insurance agent's goal is to sell, and not educate. The agent is always at an advantage if the client is bamboozled. The insurance agent is also legally obligated to represent his or her company, and not the client. The client is just a customer, and not a client being represented by an agent, like a client would be represented by a lawyer. When you buy a policy, keep that in mind. The agent's main goal is to extract as much money from your pocket, and to put it in theirs. They will always try to oversell, because their salary is directly proportional to how much insurance they sell.

I have found a very good rule for deciding how much insurance to buy. You can (a) find the present value of all future obligations at risk, or (b) take an agent's recommendation and divide by 2. They will always be very close.

Flagpole,

Your financial advice is usually fine. However your are dead wrong is stating that you should never have a whole life policy. That is probably true for you and me and most of the other shmucks on this board but some very high net worth individuals benefit from whole life as a way to pass on wealth to their descendants. It may be that you are right in the future if Congress makes the estate tax repeal permanent.

I'm more surprised to see you say people should consider annuities. Those things are usually just as bad a rip-off for the average person because they are chock full of bloated fees and expenses and are sold with very limited disclosure of those fees. Just like with whole life there are probably some people who can benefit from it but it is generally not advantageous for most folks.

1) I'm aware of how the super wealthy use annuities. Doesn't mean it's the best way to do that.

2) Regarding annuities, if you go back and read what I wrote, I said SOME annuities. MOST annuitities are COMPLETE crap, but there are SOME that are VARIABLE annuities that are OK. For example, lets say you're the survivor spouse who knows nothing about financing and you expect to live for 20 more years. SOME variable annuities will guarantee a floor of 6% or even more. While they might be making 9-12%, you are guaranteed a 6% return, even in down years. If you know nothing of mutual funds and you have a house paid for and you just need guaranteed income, SOME variable annuities aren't bad. I agree with you that the vast majority of them are complete crap. Now, I would never have an annuity of any kind, but that's me.

But you have made yourself out to be a fool who knows very little if anything about wealth preservation. Once again you astound those on LetsRun with your ego and low self esteem. You argue with people who know much more then you about this subject. Yet you scream how much you know..pathetic

Everything I need to know now wrote:

But you have made yourself out to be a fool who knows very little if anything about wealth preservation. Once again you astound those on LetsRun with your ego and low self esteem. You argue with people who know much more then you about this subject. Yet you scream how much you know..pathetic

You and a couple others have said simply that I don't know about how people use Whole Life to preserve wealth. Then you offer NO OTHER INFORMATION. Trust me brother, I know how it's done. Let's hear precisely how you would use Whole Life to pay for estate taxes, and I'll tell you how to do it better.

I don't just scream how much I know when there's a topic I know something about either brother. I give concrete examples, just as I did in this thread. Got something to compare to that? Dude asked about Universal Life and I gave him an answer, telling him not only that it's bad (that's where you stop) but telling him WHY it's bad.

Not sure why people get all bent out of shape when someone knows something that they don't. By the way, earlier this week, I started a thread asking for ADVICE about buying a new computer. Hardly what an arrogant know-it-all would do.

I just happen to know a ton about finances and how to protect what is yours because it's a passion of mine. I still haven't heard for you whole life supporters how you would use it to "protect wealth". I'm waiting, because I KNOW how people use it, and I'm waiting for you to say so, because I have about 10 other ways to do that that are much much better.