Kansas Jayhawks at Griak

Kansas not a recruiting hotbed?

Has the best juco talent in nation, outside of CA.

coachkritter wrote:

Kansas not a recruiting hotbed?

Has the best juco talent in nation, outside of CA.

...that does NOT end up going to KU. That JUCO talent is mostly foreigners these days, in case you never noticed; not Kansas kids.

I think he was referring to the fact that not a lot of DI talent comes out of Kansas high schools. I think there is plenty of talent in the Midwest to pull from for KU to be successful. Clark is intent on going after high schoolers who run 4:12 or better, rather than going after kids who have run under 4:20 and working at developing them.

As for the girls, I've heard from a number of female recruits that they find Doug creepy. I think he's just quirky, but then again, I'm not a girl.

ku friend wrote:

you're exactly right though, no girl with credientials would go there, unless she is a diehard KU fan from the day of birth.

I was a diehard KU fan from birth; placed in the state track meet twice in Kansas; was the Sunflower League champ, twice and didn't even get a call or letter from KU....asking me to walk-on!

I love the "working at developing them" theory, as if no development took place in the cases of Wissel, Chesang, Heff, Eric Sloan, Cameron Schwerer (sp?), etc.

not necesarily wrote:

I was a diehard KU fan from birth; placed in the state track meet twice in Kansas; was the Sunflower League champ, twice and didn't even get a call or letter from KU....asking me to walk-on!

I have heard of several stories like that, and it really suprises me. You think the coach would at least send a letter or call at least once to feel out that individuals "want" to go to KU.

I do think they have their scholarship standards way to high for th performances they have been having.

Still need to go the foriegn route for the women's team as of right now. They have pissed of plenty people as of late. I recently talked to a HS school coach in KS that was a little angry because one of the coaches had told a girl is one of the best in the state that she likely would never even crack their top 7 during her career at KU.

maybe a littl full of themselves over there?

Though I do like Clark I have had a chance to meet and talk with him a few times and he seemed like a class guy. Though we only breifly discussed recruiting.

[quote]Jayhawk wrote:

Clark is intent on going after high schoolers who run 4:12 or better, rather than going after kids who have run under 4:20 and working at developing them.

of all people, Doug Clark should know better. He ran on some outstanding SMS teams with top runners who were passed over by MU, KU, KSU; but ended up running better than alot of runners at those schools.

southwest mo state wrote:

[quote]Jayhawk wrote:

Clark is intent on going after high schoolers who run 4:12 or better, rather than going after kids who have run under 4:20 and working at developing them.

of all people, Doug Clark should know better. He ran on some outstanding SMS teams with top runners who were passed over by MU, KU, KSU; but ended up running better than alot of runners at those schools.

True, I remember Clark putting most of his attention towards "4:12" guys, but if you look at their current roster, all of their varsity runners except for Hefferon and Wissel didn't break 4:20 in high school; at least not that I am aware of.

Why cant KU just cut the scholarship though of the Chesang? It is not like he is any good. Opened with a 28+ 8k to start the year. K-State had a crappy African last year and ran him off, so I dont understand why KU cant do the same though.

they should, but sometimes people are hesitant. Maybe he ran fast before, but just didnt train or that is what he tells them. Either way get that brillow head out of there

I'm guessing it's not their policy.

I was just talking to some kids at Rim Rock about where they wanted to go to school. A boy who is a Jr & just ran 9:49 as a Soph, said KU, but doesn't think he's good enough to run there. A girl said KU & while she's not quite the same caliber as the boy, I told her she'd probably have a pretty good shot because they have had problems recruiting females (not to mention more scholarships for the females). I asked her what she thought of Coach Clark & she said that she went to the KU distance camp a year ago & thinks he's a great coach. She didn't think he was creepy or anything of that sort.

Will WSU wind up being the best distance program in the state in a couple years? They seemed to come out on top in recruiting last year.

I think many of the posters on this thread have been very presumptious as to what goes on in the mind of DC as far as recruiting is concerned. First off, the guy is one of the most die-hard recruiters out there; I am pretty sure he calls anyone in the entire nation that could have a shot at running well DI. Likewise, his career at SMS and his subsequent success post-hoc as a marathoner reinforce his belief and knowledge that guys who haven't gone sub 4:12 in high school can be very productive and legitimate collegiate runners. The whole non-instate recruitment is bull- like I said he calls everyone and everyone. In fact, he has been, on occasion, criticized for not giving more time to his current athletes in lieu of the time spent recruiting. Any coach in the nation will tell you they want to bring in the fastest high schoolers in the nation. However, few programs, save arkansas, colorado, wisonsin, stanford and recently oregon, can do it perenially. Because of this, programs like Kansas cycle through ups-and-downs, which is to a large extent out the hands of the coaches investing the time in the recruiting process. I know for a fact DC is willing to recruit anyone with promise, and I can vouch for several of his athletes being the 430ish high school miler and having contributed on a conference, regional and national level for him in college. Quit bashing the quy- he has a good system that works if you are willing to buy into it. His lack of success is more or less the probability associated with what places are fashionable at the time, who has extra money, who can provide money through academic scholarships, and so on and so forth...

I agree with you egg-man. There are very few schools that can consistently field top cross country teams while at the same time also field strong track teams. It's a hit and miss sort of thing; some years you don't have any scholarships available while other years you have money to burn. You may have some good distance kids interested, but the head coach decides to give money towards a sprinter or field event guy. Occasionally you can grab some good runners who have the money to walk on from out of state.

The state of Kansas is not a recruiting hotbed. In fact, most of the surrounding area is not known for putting out great runners. As for the Jucos, the best ones are almost always foreign athletes which means they will require a full ride.

Looking at the current KU track roster, most of the top guys are seniors, whom I would guess would be on some money. Nevertheless, it is a big year for KU recruiting wise. They haven't landed very many guys the cc team for awhile, and with their top two guys graduating they need some guys to fill in those shoes. Coach Clark has a proven track record with all sorts of runners, but you can't win the Derby with a plow horse.

BEING FROM KANSAS I WILL SPEAK ON THIS....first of all when you have two all-americans leading the team you naturally will have a larger gap to the 3rd guy, watch flocast of Griak with assistant Doug Clark (Ku coach) he talks about the team, and some of kus guys 3-7 have run better than this in the past so just wait till further on to see how they do.

Kansas does have some great talent , maybe not super deep, but its just that a lot of that talent goes elsewhere, the 2-time state champion from 2 years ago Tuker Weems ended up going to Oklahoma state, a 9:08 2-miler Lane Boyer went to Arkansas, its just how it pans out, no necessary lack of talent, more lack of recruiting....

Kansas is a great place to run period...if you have ever been out to the famed Rim Rock Farm in Lawrence, Kansas you would understand, where countless greats have run from Billy Mills to Jim Ryun, championships are held here (1998 NCAA champs where Adam Goucher won, 2006 Big 12 champs), the course is well manicured out in the outskirts of Lawrence, there are rolling hills, steep downhills, covered bridges, 2 insane inclines that show the true conditions of a cross country race and how you HAVE to be mentally strong to win here..., just being there and watching high school championships gives me the chills, ex Kansas coach Bob Timmons owned the land and donated it to KU and for their use...

egg-man, I disagree with you on the recruiting issue. I personally tried to get him on the ground floor of a couple of top quality girls who both ended up at Big 10 schools on scholarship and all he did was whine and ask me to gather all the contact information on coach, parents, phone numbers, addresses, etc; Isn't it enough that I tip him off with the name and their high school.

And on the issue of talent development, name one 4:30ish miler he's turned into an All-American? He's taken some sub 4:20 types and made them sub 4 milers but I don't think he's done it with anyone slower than that.

Jayhawk wrote:

And on the issue of talent development, name one 4:30ish miler he's turned into an All-American? He's taken some sub 4:20 types and made them sub 4 milers but I don't think he's done it with anyone slower than that.

YOU (or anyone else on letsrun.com) name me some coaches who have taken 4:30ish high school guys and turned them into sub 4 milers. A 4:30ish miler in hs becoming an All-American, yeah, I am sure there are some good examples of that in xc and the 10k, but I am guessing there are very few in the mile. It's not like hard work and great coaching can just turn someone into a sub-4 guy.

Egg-Head wrote:

YOU (or anyone else on letsrun.com) name me some coaches who have taken 4:30ish high school guys and turned them into sub 4 milers.

I got one...Houston Franks coached Blake Boldon from 4:27 1600m(sounds like 4:30-ish for the mile to me)to 3:42 1500m at SMS (now Missouri State). Franks is at Mississippi State coaching the men's distance runners now, the other school everyone has been trashing the coach of this week.

I agree, those types of improvements are VERY rare & I think anyone that gets a kid to do that, would call it dumb luck more than anything. Of course you'll probably hear someone give a bunch of instances where a guy like Wetmore did it with some kid from Colorado, New Mexico, etc, but they always seem to forget the part about a 4:30 at altitude being far better than a 4:30 somewhere lower. I think Coach Clark is a great coach, but in the last 10 years I think the majority of the state's best talent has left town. Just look at all this great talent we've lost in the last 10 years.

Scott Loftin - Rice - 1:54, 4:12 1600, 9:16 3200

Justin Rempel - Tulsa - 1:53, 4:13 1600

Ryan Wilson - Texas - Steeple stud, 4:19, 9:26

Matt Noonan - Missouri

Derek Tate - Ok State

Tucker Weems - Ok State - 2-time XC champ & runner-up as Soph

Lane Boyer - Arkansas - 4:15 1600, 9:06 2 mile

Amy Hastings - Arizona State

Amanda Pape - Georgetown

Trisa Nikoley - Missouri - 2:06 800 & good XC runner

Mallory Champa - Boston College

Layne Moore - Missouri - 2:12 800

Alyshia Valencia - Michigan

Redwine and Clark have squandered that program.