I see this at my company too. I was talking to a coworker and they told me to just ignore it because when I have children I will be happy I am afforded those same breaks. But I DONT want children! I see your point man and I have to say this problem is annoying as hell.
Amazed wrote:
Actually you don't get my entire post. It isn't a matter of me not taking an initiative to change something in my life. It is a matter of my company actually giving people with children breaks that are above and beyond those given to people with no children. This is a case of my company turning a blind eye to people with children. That is great they are wonderful parents spending time with their kids. That is NOT the point I was making.
This is not a situation that is unique to my company. I saw a story on CNN where they were discussing this very same issue. That there are a lot of companies that give people with children more breaks and believe that time is more important than the way a single person spends her time. CNN provided an example where a lot of single people at this specific company were the ones often asked to stay late because the people with children had to leave early. Now is that fair?
my company, my company, my company...
Do you own the company? If you do, change the rules. If you don't and you don't like it, quit. Simple as that. That's what Frat Boy trying to say - YOUR company doesn't have control over your life. YOU DO. Quitcherbitchin and move on.
I cannot quit this job for a variety of reasons and really don't think I need to justify them to this board. I was just making a statement about what I was observing. I never said I didn't like my job in general or the company I work for. That actually has nothing to do with it and I would not quit over this matter anyways. Just a statement. Man are some parents on this board a tad sensitive and cannot take it when someone call them out on something?
I didn't take the time to read through the whole thread, so you may have addressed this: I wonder why you were so offended by the remark? Why do you care so much about what some random woman spouts out? Why did you come to letsrun to get affirmation about your choice?
If you and your wife decided not to have children, then good for you! I have three kids and raising them makes me happy. I couldn't give a crap what you do. My wife and I socialize with childless couples as well as with couples who have kids. We respect eveyone's choices and are certain that it was right for us to have kids. I would never try to convince anyone else that they should have kids. It's definitely not something that you should have to be convinced about.
It sounds like some of the childless people on the thread have issues surrounding their choice or are susceptible to groupthink. I wonder if there is some biological imperative NOT to have kids for some people. Maybe our birthrate is too high and less people should have kids. Who the hell knows? In an event, everyone should mind their own business and people like the op should be much less sensitive.
I have one even better. There is a lady where I work who miss a TON of work because she is trying to have a child and can't get pregnant so she seriously misses a couple hours a day a few times a week to go to fertility clinics and a million other doctors. I asked one of my friends in the company how she had so many vacation or sick days to be gone all the time and she told me she isn't getting docked because the company understand her dire situation. RIDICULOUS!
Amazed wrote:
I cannot quit this job for a variety of reasons and really don't think I need to justify them to this board. I was just making a statement about what I was observing. I never said I didn't like my job in general or the company I work for. That actually has nothing to do with it and I would not quit over this matter anyways. Just a statement. Man are some parents on this board a tad sensitive and cannot take it when someone call them out on something?
You are not calling me out on anything, I don't have kids.
I am not sure why you don't see these parents leaving to take care of their kids as important. These people are taking care of another human being during this time.
I understand that you don't want kids, but please understand that if you had an elderly parent or something to take care of, you would probably do the same.
What would you be doing with your spare time if you weren't at work? Would you rather be doing that? Go do it then. If you would rather be at work, why are you complaining?
You are just bitching about it for the sake of bitching, there is plenty you can do to change it. You are doing more than making a statement about it. You are acting as if you are being wronged. If you want half days, take them. Start an initiative for fitness where you can only leave if you are going to go work out.
I wasn't solely recommending you quit the job - just do something about what you see as unfair. Make some changes, you don't have to be president to do that. I bet HR would love to work with you to get a healthier workplace. You would be surprised what can be done.
If you are asked to work late b/c you are single/childless, tell them no b/c you have to take care of your dog, have an appointment, prior engagement, etc.
I am not sure what you do for a living, but it sounds like you would not want to work late/overtime. If this is the case, do not do it. If you do like to do it, why complain that you get the opportunity?
Even better wrote:
I have one even better. There is a lady where I work who miss a TON of work because she is trying to have a child and can't get pregnant so she seriously misses a couple hours a day a few times a week to go to fertility clinics and a million other doctors. I asked one of my friends in the company how she had so many vacation or sick days to be gone all the time and she told me she isn't getting docked because the company understand her dire situation. RIDICULOUS!
No, what is ridiculous is that you are actually talking about this woman with your coworkers.
Why do you care?
She is obviously not going to get as far as you in the company.
It is like her having to stop and step off the track during a 10k, she isn't going to beat you, why would you even care about what she is doing back there?
How does it affect you in the slightest?
You are probably making 2x what she makes.
Even better wrote:
I have one even better. There is a lady where I work who miss a TON of work because she is trying to have a child and can't get pregnant so she seriously misses a couple hours a day a few times a week to go to fertility clinics and a million other doctors. I asked one of my friends in the company how she had so many vacation or sick days to be gone all the time and she told me she isn't getting docked because the company understand her dire situation. RIDICULOUS!
No it's not ridiculous. To put it in perspective for you: her desire to get pregnant is infinitely greater than your desire to run. And we all know that everyone on letsrun runs 120 miles a week on singles and chews nails for breakfast.
Does it ever occur to any of you that these parents might not view it as "getting away with" leaving work?
Maybe they see it as a sacrifice that they make. Obviously, you cannot continue to climb the corporate ladder when you are leaving all of the time for these reasons.
I also am confused as to why any of you would care...
Are you working at a McDonalds or something?
I will tell you one thing - I have been in the business world for a long time, and I have been very successful - you do not achieve success by worrying about your co-workers. Worry about your own work, get ahead and take any breaks you can get.
You should be viewing this as a good thing. These parents are basically letting you jump ahead of them. pick up their slack, it will get noticed.
I agree on both points....
1. The parents who are leaving are doing it right
2. Its not fair that those who do not have kids have to pick up the slack.
We should be paid by performance and time working. If parents have to leave they should not be paid or they must be required to make up the time.
While they are "doing it right" too often I see the kids as an excuse to arrive late, leave early, miss work days, etc.
Open Wide wrote:
I realize that you quoted my post completely out of context, but did you even read it?
My point is that he is justifying not having kids simply so he can be rich.
I don't have kids, and I certainly don't want them, but not so that I can have greater wealth. That seems sad to me.
Do not confuse this with not being able to afford them! People who cannot afford kids should not have them.
At the risk of tediousness, I'll try again. You responded to a guy who said he used his time and money to visit friends and relatives, go out with his girlfriend, buy running shoes, and save for retirement. Those are the things he said was easier for him to do without kids. You responded and said, yeah, but he would have nobody to love him and nobody to watch him die. What was I supposed to think but that you were talking about needing kids for those things? You were clearly discounting his friends and relatives. How the hell did I quote you out of context?
Mr. Wizard wrote:
At the risk of tediousness, I'll try again. You responded to a guy who said he used his time and money to visit friends and relatives, go out with his girlfriend, buy running shoes, and save for retirement. Those are the things he said was easier for him to do without kids. You responded and said, yeah, but he would have nobody to love him and nobody to watch him die. What was I supposed to think but that you were talking about needing kids for those things? You were clearly discounting his friends and relatives. How the hell did I quote you out of context?
He seems to base everything on money.
You are out of context b/c you suck.
Open Wide wrote:
You are out of context b/c you suck.
Well now, if that is not an intelligent and well thought out argument, I don't know what is.
obviously everyone is entitled to make up their own minds about whether or not to have children and how many, but if a couple has no intention of having children, then why get married? what's the point? and "being in love" isn't really a good answer. you can be in love and just not get married. The idea of marriage is that this binding union is (supposedly) an essential element of the family unit, and society has deemed it important to have this stability for the sake of children. With divorce being so common and acceptable these days, the whole thing is being challenged, but whatever.
I, personally, don't know if i ever want kids, but if I decide I don't, I don't see why I would get married. In the Catholic Church, can you even get married if you have no intentions of having kids? I don't know.
I was running with another mom this morning. She works 3 days a week for her company. One of those days she works from home. She is compensated very well, and worked her way up to a good position before having children. She says that she knows that by working only 3 days a week she will probably never get another promotion, but she doesn't care. She is happy to be where she is, and she likes the balance. Her company wants her to stay with them, so this is why they allow the flexibility.
Instead of getting angry at people like this, you should realize that they are giving you a chance to be eventually promoted above them.
the fact of the matter is we live in a society that values family. the majority of people value and respect the activity of having children and raising them. because these activities are valued by the majority, it is natural that the majority provides special considerations to activities they hold in high esteem. if you choose to live in the minority you might want to recognize the reality of this social situation. it's as simple as that.
Children are cute and awesome.
People who don't like kids are sad grumps.
I pity you people.
I really do.
.. 876--=0987 wrote:
the fact of the matter is we live in a society that values family. the majority of people value and respect the activity of having children and raising them. because these activities are valued by the majority, it is natural that the majority provides special considerations to activities they hold in high esteem. if you choose to live in the minority you might want to recognize the reality of this social situation. it's as simple as that.
The good news is that the majority is swinging over to those without kids, particularly in this generation. Once we have a majority of people without children we can legally change things around to penalize those with children and reward those without. When those with children complain, we can just tell them to recognize the reality of the social situation.
tps wrote:
There's a bit of that at my office as well; I stopped giving a reason. I just say it's an appointment, as I consider leaving early to make it to the distant trails an appointment with myself. They don't need to know.
same here...it's polictically correct to leave work to take care of a kid or try and have a kid. the boss would be an ass to give you crap about anything kid-related whether it be taking care of one or trying to have one (i.e. fertility treatments) even if he/she doesn't have kids or doesn't want them.
The frustraing part from a single persons perspective is that it's okay to skip out on work for kids. Yes, they are not going to move up the corporate ladder. but if a single person took all of that time off for reasons they did not disclose, not only would they not move up the corporate laddder, they would be fired for not doing their job,
dmb wrote:
No it's not ridiculous. To put it in perspective for you: her desire to get pregnant is infinitely greater than your desire to run. And we all know that everyone on letsrun runs 120 miles a week on singles and chews nails for breakfast.
but there is no way you could take this kind of time off to run without getting fired! it's society placing value on one person's ambitions over another. not really fair if you don't want kids or are not in the position to have them.