Who's more annoying, the hardcore right or the hardcore left?

Whoever is in power is more annoying.

there is an enormous difference between being anti-american and anti policy

most americans have zero idea of the bad policy decisions made over the past 50-100 years of involvement with the middle east (by both political parties)

how many americans understand our involvement within iran dating the to 1950's? how many understand our funding of the mujahideen in the 80's? how many truly understand what our support for the saudi royals has done to the saudi populace?

you can reduce things to soundbites if you wish, 'anti american', 'they hate us for our freedom' etc... but it does nothing to solve the larger and ever growing issues we face.

The LEFT! They rant and rave more than 'I love peeps' does while he's getting railed by his boyfriend.

I agree with some posters that the Democrats are anti-american and anti-troops for not supporting this war in Iraq. The Republican leaders would ALWAYS support their president and their country during a time of war, wouldn't they? YES, they would stand by their commander in chief and not criticize his actions during a time of war, because, goddammit, that is the patriotic and American thing to do, and that is what our troops deserve.....

Right??

(do yourselves a favor people, and read these below quotes)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/18/161016/461

COMMENTS MADE BY REPUBLICAN LEADERS AND TALKING HEADS DURING THE 1999 KOSOVO WAR-

Why did they second-guess our commitment to freedom from genocide and demand that we cut and run?

"President Clinton is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."

-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."

-Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of presidential candidate George W. Bush

Why did they demoralize our brave men and women in uniform?

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

*** "You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo." ***

-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"

-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"I'm on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so you can trust me and believe me when I say we're running out of cruise missles. I can't tell you exactly how many we have left, for security reasons, but we're almost out of cruise missles."

-Senator Inhofe (R-OK)

****** "I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX) *****

"I don't know that Milosevic will ever raise a white flag"

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)

*** "Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"

-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99 ****

Why didn't they support our president in a time of war?

**** "Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."

-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX) *****

"This is President Clinton's war, and when he falls flat on his face, that's his problem."

-Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN)

"The two powers that have ICBMs that can reach the United States are Russia and China. Here we go in. We're taking on not just Milosevic. We can't just say, 'that little guy, we can whip him.' We have these two other powers that have missiles that can reach us, and we have zero defense thanks to this president."

-Senator James Inhofe (R-OK)

**** "You can support the troops but not the president" ****

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"My job as majority leader is be supportive of our troops, try to have input as decisions are made and to look at those decisions after they're made ... not to march in lock step with everything the president decides to do."

-Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

For us to call this a victory and to commend the President of the United States as the Commander in Chief showing great leadership in Operation Allied Force is a farce"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

Why did they blame America first?

*** "Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX) ***

"Once the bombing commenced, I think then Milosevic unleashed his forces, and then that's when the slaughtering and the massive ethnic cleansing really started"

-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)

"Clinton's bombing campaign has caused all of these problems to explode"

-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"America has no vital interest in whose flag flies over Kosovo's capital, and no right to attack and kill Serb soldiers fighting on their own soil to preserve the territorial integrity of their own country"

-Pat Buchanan (R)

"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ... who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton."

-Michael Savage

"This has been an unmitigated disaster ... Ask the Chinese embassy. Ask all the people in Belgrade that we've killed. Ask the refugees that we've killed. Ask the people in nursing homes. Ask the people in hospitals."

-Representative Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring "wars of national liberation."

-Representative Helen Chenoweth (R-ID)

"America has no vital interest in whose flag flies over Kosovo's capital, and no right to attack and kill Serb soldiers fighting on their own soil to preserve the territorial integrity of their own country"

-Pat Buchanan (R)

"By the order to launch air strikes against Serbia, NATO and President Clinton have entered uncharted territory in mankind's history. Not even Hitler's grab of the Sudetenland in the 1930s, which eventually led to WW II, ranks as a comparable travesty. For, there are no American interests whatsoever that the NATO bombing will either help, or protect; only needless risks to which it exposes the American soldiers and assets, not to mention the victims on the ground in Serbia."

-Bob Djurdjevic, founder of Truth in Media

I like Ron Paul he's against big government left or right. Economics has to be capitalist [there is no other way to allocate resourses] but not massive corprate- warfare- welfare -state- capitalism.

The left and right merge.

The far left I think is more dangerous. These people hate America, think America is evil and compare George Bush or any other American leader to Hitler.

This type of people do not have a sense of reality. Is the Iraq war a difficult situation? Yes. Does that mean that war or force should never be an option? No

Does that mean Americans are fascist pigs? No.

Does that mean America does more harm than good in the world? No

Does that mean Cuba with all its freedoms is some Utopia? No

Does that mean that N. Korea, Hamas, and Iran are all nice people and we should just be a little more understanding? No

As for the far right, I'm not sure how the term is defined. The racist bigoted people are what some quanity but I don't know what that has to do with right wing/left wing.

But I know a lot of people on the far, far left (the type of people who were campaigning against Hillary Clinton for being too conservative on defense in her 2006 senate primary) do not like America and seriously think it is out to no good.

Dick Radatz wrote:

I love it. Robert Fisk, a man who is not only anti American but also anti western civilization.

There actually is a new term used when describing a person who mixes personal agenda with straight journalism in an attempt to distort reality and cloud an issue, it is called Fisking. Nice try though.

Actually, it didn't take much to find out the real definition for "fisking." Nice try, though.

"The term Fisking, or to Fisk, is blogosphere slang describing detailed point-by-point criticism that highlights errors, disputes the analysis of presented facts, or highlights other problems in a statement, article, or essay."

This seems to be what you are doing. Perhaps you are, as you say, anti-American and anti-western civilization.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

I agree with some posters that the Democrats are anti-american and anti-troops for not supporting this war in Iraq. The Republican leaders would ALWAYS support their president and their country during a time of war, wouldn't they? YES, they would stand by their commander in chief and not criticize his actions during a time of war, because, goddammit, that is the patriotic and American thing to do, and that is what our troops deserve.....

Right??

(do yourselves a favor people, and read these below quotes)

After reading those quotes I don't know whether to laugh or cry. What a bunch of petty hypocrites. Will that take the wind out of all these so called conservatives who support the right and hate the left? No way, 3,2,1...

Ha Ha....you're hilarious.First of all, as far as being against the war and such (because, you know, it is "difficult"), READ THE QUOTES I POSTED ABOVE BY REPUBLICANS. Hmmm....sounds like Republicans were singing a different tune in 1999.And then you had this nugget-

leftistii wrote:

As for the far right, I'm not sure how the term is defined. The racist bigoted people are what some quanity but I don't know what that has to do with right wing/left wing.

.

HA HA HA Yup, there all these racist bigoted people that SUPPORT THE REPUBLICANS, and you just toss them aside and say, "nope, there not in my party." suuuuure. (but of course you count the fringe nuts on the left as being front and center in the Democrat party. Sounds like you have getting a good dose of Bill O'Reilly in your system these days).

And as far as dangerous goes, how about Timothy McVeigh?? He was part of far-RIGHT groups, and he, uh, did a little damage, huh? (you'll deny his affiliation with the right, of course, but there is no denying he was part of far right-wing movements that distrusted that gov't to the max, which is the ultimate right-wing mantra: don't trust the gov't.)

(and Jefe, thanks for reading and appreciating the insanity of the quotes I posted. Tom Delay is beyond belief [well actually, he makes some sense with a couple of those quotes **IF** he kept a consistent position. But of course once Bush took office, he did a complete 180 on those positions he took against Clinton. Unbelievable] )

leftistii wrote:

The far left I think is more dangerous. These people hate America, think America is evil and compare George Bush or any other American leader to Hitler.

This type of people do not have a sense of reality. Is the Iraq war a difficult situation? Yes. Does that mean that war or force should never be an option? No

Does that mean Americans are fascist pigs? No.

Does that mean America does more harm than good in the world? No

Does that mean Cuba with all its freedoms is some Utopia? No

Does that mean that N. Korea, Hamas, and Iran are all nice people and we should just be a little more understanding? No

So much to respond to. I can't respond to it all, so I'll just make one point. I'm very critical of the Bush administration. Do I compare him to Hitler? No, Hitler committed genocide. However, I think when people do make that comparison, it's for things like Bush's wiretaps and holding people in jails for years without trial. Those ARE things that have happened in fascist governments.

I mean, you have to admit that people deserve a fair trial, right? Innocent, guilty, brown, white, everyone should have their day in court. And if those bastards prove to be terrorists, throw away the f***ing key, I say. But there have been documented cases of innocent people held unfairly without trial for years. That's bullshit.

And frankly, it's un-American. This notion of "lock 'em all up, keep 'em there, then we'll figure out what to do with them in a few years" is a travesty to the ideals of freedom that most people cherish.

So you see, people aren't critical of Bush because they are un-American. They are critical of Bush because they are VERY American, and they can't stand to see him circumvent law or make it up as he goes along.

very true... lets remember that McVeigh and eric rudolph are embraced heart and soul by the limpbaughs and coulters

the far right in this country has never embraced the fiscal conservatism of many former republicans

Great quotes. Of course, no one arguing for the far right is acknowledging them.

So Hannity and Rush and a whole lot of Republican politicians are hypocrites? This is news? Are you trying to pretend that this isn't true to the same degree on the left?

Neither political party is particularly interested in freedom anymore. Both want big government to control people's lives, the only difference is in what ways and I don't like either really.

Let's give the Democrats a couple years in power and we'll see them do the same crap they bitched about. Two sides of the same coin.

"leftistii" has again confused being "anti-American" with being disgusted by the current American administration. I guess I need to make one more reminder that the people he calls "anti-American" are the ones that wanted to spare us this Iraqi quagmire and slaughter and disfigurement of GIs to begin with...and yeah, about 90% of them supported the original incursion into Afghanistan, which made some sense.

Media's reported that this has already happened with the earmarks that dems complained about so much. Apparently they're doing it as much with their pet projects as the republicans did. Big surprise.

Mtn Dew wrote:

So Hannity and Rush and a whole lot of Republican politicians are hypocrites? This is news? Are you trying to pretend that this isn't true to the same degree on the left?

Neither political party is particularly interested in freedom anymore. Both want big government to control people's lives, the only difference is in what ways and I don't like either really.

Let's give the Democrats a couple years in power and we'll see them do the same crap they bitched about. Two sides of the same coin.

I don't view the hypocracy of the Republican Party as news, rather I view it as selective memory. The basis for arguing for the far right is that they are above "flip flopping", hypocracy, hysteria, etc., etc. They know what is right and they stick to it in spite of the liberals trying to undercut their moral fiber.

Sure the left does it too? But the left is too fragmented and wide to not tolerate deviations from the core.

I get the argument from Republicans all the time that Democrats are no different. Given their day in the sun they will commit as many offenses as the Republicans, so they say. This somehow makes the Delays' of the world ok in Republican eyes. I don't believe that...

Mtn Dew wrote:

So Hannity and Rush and a whole lot of Republican politicians are hypocrites? This is news? Are you trying to pretend that this isn't true to the same degree on the left?

Neither political party is particularly interested in freedom anymore. Both want big government to control people's lives, the only difference is in what ways and I don't like either really.

Let's give the Democrats a couple years in power and we'll see them do the same crap they bitched about. Two sides of the same coin.

Not trying to pretend at all. You should be able to see that in my posts regarding the bush = hitler drivel. Perhaps I have now been thrown in the far left camp.

Both sides are going to complain about the actions of the others despite the fact they they may often take similar actions depending on the circumstances. I don't like the "anti-american" garbage coming from the right. If people on the left questioning or having a distorted outlook on the president and the administration constitutes being anti-american, then all those people on the right quoted above should be held to the same standard.