Attempting Minimalism

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for advice.

Here's some: Be careful. I was never chronically injured until I attempted minimalism while dealing with minor shin problems. I tried virtually all the advice given here (at letsrun central) regarding what to do, and you know what, I was chronically injured subsequent to the minimalist experiment. For two frickin years!!!! The cure was MUCH worse than the disease. Be careful. There's other avenues outside of minimalism when dealing with what you've described. Do your homework.

What you described in your first post is natural. I went from motion control shoes plus orthotics to H-Streets in about a 4 month period. I transitioned with Asics DS Racer VI and VII's.

At first, all of the tendons and muscles below the knee are going to ache at one point or another. The muscles of your feet and lower legs have become really weak and dependant on cushion and plastic support. Think of it as taking off a cast.

I dealt with plantar fasciaitis almost immediately, as my arches and calves were probably my weakest link. Don't let this discourage you. Stretch your calves like crazy; use the stick, rolling pin, or whatever to keep them loose and flexible. During this transition time you achilles tendon is naturally trying to legthen itself out. You are using it what it was meant for; shock absorbtion while running.

I even had to sleep in the night boot to get the extra stretch in my calves and plantar. Eventually, the calves and achilles legthen, and your PF pain will go away.

Just start out slow if you need to. I myself, maintained pretty high mileage throughout the transition. I did a lot of slow running on grass fields though, (still do :).

Eventually you can comfortably mix in the roads as your feet stregthen.

LaWoof was right, it does take a while for the body neuromuscular system to retrain itself. I was always a forefoot striker so the transition was a bit easier for me. The longer you keep at it, the more your legs will let you know about the slight muscular imbalances that exist between them. After 1.5 years of very minimal running I am finally starting to even everything out.

Oh yeah, since the bout of PF, not the slightest bit of tendon or joint pain felt. Nothing compared to the constant aches and pains of orthotic days.

Have you considered Active Release Technique? A couple of people I know have had similar problems and were cured within a couple of treatments...

http://www.activerelease.com/about.asp

http://www.drabelson.com/ARTPage.htm

May be something worth considering.

Hal is my pal wrote:

Wrong. It is framed as seeking advice, but you know you're looking for debate, whether you realize it or not. Go back and read all the threads you have started...ever. It may open your eyes.

Don't know if she is looking for a debate but clearly you are looking for a fight.

buffet wrote:

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I'm not asking for a debate. I'm asking for advice.

Here's some: Be careful. I was never chronically injured until I attempted minimalism while dealing with minor shin problems. I tried virtually all the advice given here (at letsrun central) regarding what to do, and you know what, I was chronically injured subsequent to the minimalist experiment. For two frickin years!!!! The cure was MUCH worse than the disease. Be careful. There's other avenues outside of minimalism when dealing with what you've described. Do your homework.

I would like to second this post. Be very careful. I loved the minimalist defenders(myself at one time)saying podiatrist had too much business to lose, hence the pushing of support, orthodics, etc. Then I noticed all the people in his office as I was getting an old pair of orthodics reinforced(gave up the minimalist thought)and realized I was more than likely the ONLY runner of all the people there.

If you already have PF... along with chronic runners knee, bad time to try minimialism? or any of these other remedies?

After years of injuries that were only exacerbated by stability/control shoes and hundreds of dollars of custom orthotics, a physio suggested I try going to something lower heeled, lighter, more flexible, so that my body could take care of the problems by getting stronger.

It took a couple years to get completely comfortable running in racing flats, but now I feel that running in regular trainers is awkward, clunky and counterproductive. Any injuries I've had have been the result of overtraining, and not a lack of cushioning/shock absorption or stability.

Some things I did while making the slow transition were: Lots of yoga standing/balancing poses, heel and toe raises, wearing flip flops as much as possible (in TX that should be relatively easy), running on grass or dirt as often as possible, making an effort to stretch more, jogging barefoot on grass for about 10-15 minutes once a week.

Because I was so frustrated with the injuries, like I suspect you are now, I made a conscious effort to make the transition worthwhile. It was frustrating to be sure, but not nearly as frustrating as not running at all.

I don't run in the minimalist shoes that so many advocate, mainly because we don't sell them, but a basic, no frills racing flat almost always serves the purpose.

Good luck. Enjoy.

pokerking55 wrote:

If you already have PF... along with chronic runners knee, bad time to try minimialism? or any of these other remedies?

Actually it's pretty much what cured my PF after a year and a half of it.

If one were returning from injuring (achilles tendonitis) would now be a good time to try minimalism, or should I wait until i'm back to old running form and then switch?

Anyone have any experience with this?

Perfect biomechanics? Nonsense. Like saying someone has a perfect nose==doesn't exist.

As a TXrunningguy, let me offer you some intuitive, reasonable advice: look over the minimalist threads on this site, look over Pose and Chi, and find the right form that works for you.

I realize I've progressed this thread to form from shoes but they go pretty much hand-in-hand.

I'm also certain that those who have tried minimalism and got hurt did not follow the slow transition that Lawoof lays out.

2 reasons to want to go minimalism:

1. it's intuitive--stress tendons and ligaments correctly and end up with stronger feet

2. it feels so much damn better to run in a lighter shoe

1 reason not to:

1. It can take too damn long to do it safely

Good luck, Lubbock, let me know if you get to austin and I'll hook you up with a fast group at town lake.

race bannon wrote:

Perfect biomechanics? Nonsense. Like saying someone has a perfect nose==doesn't exist.

Shitty biomechanics then, care to explain why my arches collapse violently when I land midfoot? Minimalism is a snake oil product that idiots like myself fall for because our legs don't work as well as the people around us, and we don't understand why / like running so much that we'll try anything.

race bannon wrote:

1 reason not to:

1. It can take too damn long to do it safely

Good luck, Lubbock, let me know if you get to austin and I'll hook you up with a fast group at town lake.

That is some good advice.. unfortunately, it is never emphasized enough.

I know it varies from shoe to shoe, but what shoes are a good way to gradually go down in support?

20-30 mpw for over 6 months? You are already a minimalist.

You said, "I'm a midfoot/forefoot striker" Well, there's your problem right there!

Where's your Coach? No Coach? How about an experienced runner whose opinion you can trust? Someone needs to videotape you running and then sit down with you to view the tape and show you the error of your ways.

How many Coaches have you had in Jr. High, High School, College and beyond and none of them noticed you kept injuring yourself with your bad running form?

You are doing something wrong and continue to repeat those mistakes without going to the source of the problem...your forced or unnatural biomechanics.

Plus, it would help to get off concrete and ditch the headphones and run with more experienced runners at least once a week.

Just a Coach... wrote:

20-30 mpw for over 6 months? You are already a minimalist.

You said, "I'm a midfoot/forefoot striker" Well, there's your problem right there!

Where's your Coach? No Coach? How about an experienced runner whose opinion you can trust? Someone needs to videotape you running and then sit down with you to view the tape and show you the error of your ways.

How many Coaches have you had in Jr. High, High School, College and beyond and none of them noticed you kept injuring yourself with your bad running form?

You are doing something wrong and continue to repeat those mistakes without going to the source of the problem...your forced or unnatural biomechanics.

Plus, it would help to get off concrete and ditch the headphones and run with more experienced runners at least once a week.

I've avoided concrete for a long time now and I never wear headphones when I run. I was on a team. I had a coach. I ran with experienced runners. I was still getting injured...Not their fault. I've been measured, scanned, and analyzed by a few doctors and podiatrists who were quick to prescribe orthotics. Each pair I wore did not help, so I'd see a new doctor who would see my old orthotics and tell me they were made wrong and that they would make me a "better" pair.

I transitioned into minimalist shoes a couple of years ago (away from Adidas Supernova Cushion + orthotics) when I wasn't training real seriously..it was easy to start from scratch and build up.

Unfortunately, I seriously injured my achilles tendon for the first time, and spent almost a year dealing with that. I'm now back in the Supernovas and orthotics and doing fine. I would proceed with much caution...

After working as a first responder, one thing I've learned about running injuries is that they are very poorly understood. My bosses (ATCs and MDs) had a slew of things worth trying but few well-established, reliable treatments. There's a lot of trial and error involved in fixing chronic injures.

If you've exhausted the conventional methods, why not try something else? I was chronically injured off of 30-40 mpw (wearing Kayanos) about 2 years ago. I switched to racing flats (not full-on minimalism) and I've been much healthier since. I've still had a couple of small injuries but they've always been short term from ramping up volume and intensity way too fast.

I think the key to transitioning is to view your running as rehab. If you try to give yourself a good workout, you'll be overstressing your feet and ankles. Get your serious exercise on the bike and start with 1 mile of running. It sounds pathetic but if you build up very slowly and carefully, you'll be at respectable mileage before you know it. (Plus, the time will seem to pass faster since you're getting healthier, rather than dwelling on a chronic injury that's not improving).

Yeah, I think I'll start wearing my racing flats most of the time and see how that goes. The only reason I ran barefoot yesterday was because I was in those trainers that were uncomfortable. If I the slight tightness in my arches turns to being painful, I'll go back to the trainers and alternate until I can find something that hopefully will work. I think going completely minimalist (barefoot) all the time is a bit too drastic for now. It is probably good to do it for short distances or strides every now and then. But if the racing flats do not work out then who knows.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Yeah, I think I'll start wearing my racing flats most of the time and see how that goes. The only reason I ran barefoot yesterday was because I was in those trainers that were uncomfortable. If I the slight tightness in my arches turns to being painful, I'll go back to the trainers and alternate until I can find something that hopefully will work. I think going completely minimalist (barefoot) all the time is a bit too drastic for now. It is probably good to do it for short distances or strides every now and then. But if the racing flats do not work out then who knows.

Why go minimalist? Why not go moderate...as in liteweight trainers or MARATHON racing shoes. If you have racing flats wear them around as casual shoes to build up unused muscles in your feet and lower legs. Also, have someone in Lubbock analyze your running form, but not the Texas Tech staff; they can't coach - they can only import.

Finally, for the rest of our sake....please get a boyfriend....just kidding.

A prior poster was correct - start from scratch, especially mentally.