Any sub 4 minute milers who couldn't break 53 in a 400?
Any sub 4 minute milers who couldn't break 53 in a 400?
Dave Bedford ran 4:01 for the mile off a 400m best of 58 seconds- his endurance was pretty decent though
oldskool wrote:
Dave Bedford ran 4:01 for the mile off a 400m best of 58 seconds- his endurance was pretty decent though
Possibly Euan Robertson (NZL) ran 3:58.98 Berlin 1977 after World Cup steeple.
Doubt he could break 53 seconds for 400...helluva competitor tho. Malmo....yes?
oldskool wrote:
Dave Bedford ran 4:01 for the mile off a 400m best of 58 seconds- his endurance was pretty decent though
Suuuure. Can you imagine a 48s guy averaging 50.25 for the mile? Yeah, that is pretty decent endurance. LOL
This thread should be retitled "What Sub4 guys never bothered to race the 400?"
i've run sub 4 a few times...
48.6 relay. 49.1 blocks. i think if i had trained specifically for the 400 i could have broken 48.
running start i would run 23.0 200's flat out when i was in sub 4 shape. I felt i had average speed amongst the college sub 4 guys.
to be honest it's not the wheels you have its how you feel after you split 1200m. if you feel fresh and can run a 57 then you have all the speed you need.
however, championship races are all about wheels over the last 600. i'd rather be a fast 400/800 guy in those situations.
The slowest I have ever seen was 52.6, but that was hand timed.
desert rodent wrote:
Possibly Euan Robertson (NZL) ran 3:58.98 Berlin 1977 after World Cup steeple.
Doubt he could break 53 seconds for 400...helluva competitor tho. Malmo....yes?
Berlin was before World Cup, and there was no automatic timing. Thanks for the information, I was always wondering who was 9th in that race. Had I run just 0.5 faster I'd have been the first 10th placer in a race to break 4:00.
1. 3:54.7 Karl Fleschen WG
2. 3:55.1 John Walker NZ
3. 3:55.3 Jurgen Straub EG
4. 3:55.6 Harold Hudak WG
5. 3:55.9 Dave Hill CAN
6. 3:56.4 Wilson Waigwa KEN
7. 3:58.7 Steve Scott USA
8. 3:58.9 Marty Liquori USA
9. 3:58.9 Euan Robertson NZ
10. 4:00.5 George Malley USA
11. 4:01.x Michael Karst WG
...
15. 4:01.5 Ron Addison USA
malmo wrote:
desert rodent wrote:Possibly Euan Robertson (NZL) ran 3:58.98 Berlin 1977 after World Cup steeple.
Doubt he could break 53 seconds for 400...helluva competitor tho. Malmo....yes?
Berlin was before World Cup, and there was no automatic timing. Thanks for the information, I was always wondering who was 9th in that race. Had I run just 0.5 faster I'd have been the first 10th placer in a race to break 4:00.
1. 3:54.7 Karl Fleschen WG
2. 3:55.1 John Walker NZ
3. 3:55.3 Jurgen Straub EG
4. 3:55.6 Harold Hudak WG
5. 3:55.9 Dave Hill CAN
6. 3:56.4 Wilson Waigwa KEN
7. 3:58.7 Steve Scott USA
8. 3:58.9 Marty Liquori USA
9. 3:58.9 Euan Robertson NZ
10. 4:00.5 George Malley USA
11. 4:01.x Michael Karst WG
...
15. 4:01.5 Ron Addison USA
Technically 0.6 faster.
Nevertheless, those overall results are pretty impressive. Good talent in that race.
malmo wrote:
desert rodent wrote:Possibly Euan Robertson (NZL) ran 3:58.98 Berlin 1977 after World Cup steeple.
Doubt he could break 53 seconds for 400...helluva competitor tho. Malmo....yes?
Berlin was before World Cup, and there was no automatic timing. Thanks for the information, I was always wondering who was 9th in that race. Had I run just 0.5 faster I'd have been the first 10th placer in a race to break 4:00.
1. 3:54.7 Karl Fleschen WG
2. 3:55.1 John Walker NZ
3. 3:55.3 Jurgen Straub EG
4. 3:55.6 Harold Hudak WG
5. 3:55.9 Dave Hill CAN
6. 3:56.4 Wilson Waigwa KEN
7. 3:58.7 Steve Scott USA
8. 3:58.9 Marty Liquori USA
9. 3:58.9 Euan Robertson NZ
10. 4:00.5 George Malley USA
11. 4:01.x Michael Karst WG
...
15. 4:01.5 Ron Addison USA
Malmo, was Michael Karst the best "technical" hurdler in that era. If not him, who?
Thanks.
PS Why did they let so many steeplers in such a prestigious mile.....no offense.
sub4 guy wrote:
i've run sub 4 a few times...
48.6 relay. 49.1 blocks. i think if i had trained specifically for the 400 i could have broken 48.
running start i would run 23.0 200's flat out when i was in sub 4 shape. I felt i had average speed amongst the college sub 4 guys.
I'd say you're well above average speed for 4:00 mile.
I doubt there's anyone on the list who could break 50 in a 400. If anyone knows FACTS to contradict, please point them out and I'll strike them from the list.
2 Jun 66 Roscoe Divine USA 3:59.1 m 3:56.3 m 5 Jun 70
11 Jun 66 Tim Danielsen USA 3:59.4 m
23 Jun 67 Marty Liquori USA 3:59.8 m 3:52.2 m 17 May 75
16 May 70 Duncan Macdonald USA 3:59.6 m 3:58.4 m 27 May 72
23 May 70 Jim Crawford USA 3:59.6 m 3:57.7 m 26 Jun 71
5 Jun 70 Steve Prefontaine USA 3:57.4 m 3:54.6 m 20 Jun 73
31 May 71 Brendan Foster UK 3:58.5 m 3:55.9 m 10 Jun 72
26 Jun 71 John Baker USA 3:59.8 m
4 Mar 72 George Young USA 3:59.6 m
27 Apr 73 Knut Kvalheim Nor 3:58.2 m 3:56.2 m 31 Jul 74
12 May 73 John Hartnett Ire 3:58.3 m 3:54.7 m 20 Jun 73
13 May 73 Barry Brown USA 3:58.8 m
19 May 73 Mark Feig USA 3:59.5 m 3:58.5 m 27 Apr 74
26 May 73 Charlie McMullen USA 3:59.7 m 3:56.9 * 20 Jul 74
4 Jun 73 Dick Buerkle USA 3:58.0 m 3:54.93 i 13 Jan 78
20 Jun 73 Paul Geis USA 3:58.0 m
20 Jun 73 Jim Johnson USA 3:58.8 m
20 Jun 73 Scott Daggatt USA 3:59.6 m 3:58.8 ? 24 May 75
2 Jul 73 Emiel Puttemans Bel 3:56.19
25 Jul 73 Nick Rose UK 3:58.4 m 3:57.49 8 Aug 80
16 Mar 74 Paul Cummings USA 3:56.4 m
20 Apr 74 Steve Wheeler USA 3:59.4 m
27 Apr 74 Karl Thornton USA 3:57.9 m
4 May 74 Johnny Halberstadt SAf 3:59.9 m
11 May 74 Ron Martin UK 3:58.9 m
1 Jun 74 Bruce Fischer USA 3:58.5 m
1 Jun 74 Ted Castaneda USA 3:58.5 m
20 Jul 74 Tony Colon PR 3:59.3 *
31 Jul 74 Lars Kaupang Nor 3:59.9 m
16 Aug 74 Bronislaw Malinowski Pol 3:57.59 3:55.40 9 Aug 76
24 May 75 Matt Centrowitz USA 3:59.2 m 3:54.94 26 Jun 82
29 May 75 Gary Barger USA 3:58.8 m
9 Jul 76 Karl Fleschen Ger 3:56.03 3:54.72 26 Aug 77
20 Mar 77 Henry Rono Ken 3:59.2 mi
26 Aug 77 Euan Robertson NZ 3:58.94
28 Jan 78 Greg Meyer USA 3:59.1 mi
3 Jul 78 Phil Kane USA 3:59.37 3:55.77 25 Aug 82
12 Jan 79 Amos Korir Ken 3:59.3 ?i
13 Jun 79 Dietmar Millonig Aut 3:57.7 ?
22 Mar 80 Ray Wicksell USA 3:59.7 ? 3:56.23 24 Jan 81
16 May 80 Sosthenes Bitok Ken 3:59.1 m 3:56.1 m 19 Jul 83
26 Jul 80 Bill McChesney USA 3:59.1 ? 3:56.36 28 May 81
28 May 81 Rudy Chapa USA 3:57.04
28 May 81 Ed Spinney USA 3:57.34
28 May 81 Ken Martin USA 3:57.84
15 Aug 81 Geoff Smith UK 3:55.8 m
14 Jan 82 Steve Austin Aus 3:57.79
22 Jan 82 Frank Assumma USA 3:57.3 mi 3:56.34 9 Jun 82
23 Jan 82 Dan Heikkinen USA 3:59.05 i
13 Feb 82 Thom Hunt USA 3:59.5 mi 3:57.88 i 26 Feb 82
17 Jul 82 Steve Plasencia USA 3:58.34
15 Jan 83 Chris Fox USA 3:59.0 mi
12 Feb 83 Brian Diemer USA 3:59.93 i
12 Mar 83 Richard Tuwei Ken 3:59.96 i 3:59.56 15 Aug 83
1 Jun 83 Paul Williams Can 3:58.6 m
1 Jun 83 Kelly Britz Can 3:59.5 m 3:58.46 16 Jul 84
12 May 84 Mike Blackmore USA 3:59.80 3:57.46 7 May 88
29 Aug 84 Markus Ryffel Swi 3:58.05
16 Aug 85 Henry Marsh USA 3:59.31
10 May 86 Jeff Atkinson USA 3:59.9 m 3:52.80 17 Aug 88
17 May 86 Marty Hemsley USA 3:59.70
16 May 87 Harold Kuphaldt USA 3:59.73
16 May 87 Rick Bergesen USA 3:59.79
22 Jan 88 Brian Abshire USA 3:58.62 i
31 Jan 88 Steve Ave USA 3:59.09 i 3:58.93 i 28 Jan 90
7 May 88 Karl Van Calcar USA 3:59.35
10 Jun 89 Mark Coogan USA 3:58.81 3:58.8 m 9 Jun 91
12 Aug 90 John Ngugi Ken 3:56.75
9 Mar 91 Bob Kennedy USA 3:58.11 i 3:56.21 4 Jun 94
9 Jun 91 Gerard Donakowski USA 3:59.1 m
30 May 92 Fabio Olivo Ita 3:55.94
15 May 93 Aaron Ramirez USA 3:59.57
4 Jun 94 Jim Howarth USA 3:59.75
29 Apr 95 Tom Nohilly USA 3:59.75
sub4 guy wrote:
i've run sub 4 a few times...
48.6 relay. 49.1 blocks. i think if i had trained specifically for the 400 i could have broken 48.
running start i would run 23.0 200's flat out when i was in sub 4 shape. I felt i had average speed amongst the college sub 4 guys.
to be honest it's not the wheels you have its how you feel after you split 1200m. if you feel fresh and can run a 57 then you have all the speed you need.
however, championship races are all about wheels over the last 600. i'd rather be a fast 400/800 guy in those situations.
Wait a minute, your all-out running start 23.0 200 doesn't reconcile with your 49.1 blocks 400 - please explain yourself.
oldskool wrote:
Dave Bedford ran 4:01 for the mile off a 400m best of 58 seconds- his endurance was pretty decent though
obviously bedford could have run faster than 58. I'm thinking like 53. still extremely impressive.
Malmo,
Great list of sub 4 guys who can't break 50. Definitely agree with over 90% of them.
Think Bob Wheeler, Marty Liquori, and Tom Nohilly all ran 1:48 for 800, and probably 48+r for 400.
coachkritter wrote:
Malmo,
Great list of sub 4 guys who can't break 50. Definitely agree with over 90% of them.
Think Bob Wheeler, Marty Liquori, and Tom Nohilly all ran 1:48 for 800, and probably 48+r for 400.
Bob Wheeler is not on that list. Marty never ran under 50 and told me himself recently he didn't think he could. Having a good kick and having good foot speed are two different things.
Possible on Nohilly, maybe someone who is sure will weigh in. My guess is that an official survey would reveal 95%-plus of them couldn't break 50, with most of them being 51 point (on a good day) and a few 53-pluses.
not 100% sure - and this is from memory of conversation with him - but I'm thinkin Paul Cummings told me he ran a 49.xxr. But I wouldn't bet - I wouldn't take him off the list ...
Malmo ... Paul ran vs my younger (and faster) brother at Ca state HS meet. He told me that he had figure he needed 20 yds on him with lap to go as he had heard he had 48s speed as Paul had 49. Paul had 20 yards, but Brent had 46.7r speed and he won by 1.2 secs going away, most of it in last 220 … Paul said – oh well, I miscalculated.
I think that was the context of the "49" - per Paul
Euan Robertson recently passed away.
i ran the 49.1 in highschool. heats semi final. 49.6, 49.4. 49.1 all in the same day.
I've split 400 faster but in relays, and like i said as a miler i focused on 1500 / mile stuff not on the speed. as a result i only ran 1 or 2 400's in a year usually on 4*400.
this is an argument that cannot be resolved because most milers didn't train to run their fastest 400m/440yd. Alot of us might run a b team mile relay once in a while and get a 1/4 mile split from that, but that's about it. I ran a 51 sec 440yd on a cinder track and ran a 4:04 mile; but I never trained for a 440.