Is Hall's performance proof that the only advantage east-Africans have over Americans is geography and not inherent and immutable physiology. I believe Hall, like most east Africans, was born and raised at altitude.
Is Hall's performance proof that the only advantage east-Africans have over Americans is geography and not inherent and immutable physiology. I believe Hall, like most east Africans, was born and raised at altitude.
Hall was born in Washington state.
og wrote:
Is Hall's performance proof that the only advantage east-Africans have over Americans is geography and not inherent and immutable physiology.
No.
East Africans' physiological advantages come from generation upon generation of genetic adaption to altitude, not from living and training at altitude.
If generation after generation of East Africans no longer lived at altitude could the subsequent generations of sea-level Africans reverse or diminish the genetic effects/physiological advantages of previous generations of high-altitude Africans?
If so, then geography determines physiology.
so, you say geography is the key to their success? you also say they have adapted over several generations? dont you think its all genetics or something else on top of all these?
here is a question to ask yourself while answering that, if all is true, then we would expect people who live around Himalayas or the Andes mountains to be among the elite too.
while answering that, think about this ... 99% of the Kenyan runners are from the Kalenjin subgroup, and very few are from the other remaining 40+ dialects ...
sincerely, chirchir
Tuone Udaina wrote:
Hall was born in Washington state.
no.
adaptation? wrote:
so, you say geography is the key to their success? you also say they have adapted over several generations? dont you think its all genetics or something else on top of all these?
here is a question to ask yourself while answering that, if all is true, then we would expect people who live around Himalayas or the Andes mountains to be among the elite too.
while answering that, think about this ... 99% of the Kenyan runners are from the Kalenjin subgroup, and very few are from the other remaining 40+ dialects ...
sincerely, chirchir
Nobody really knows why East Africans and especially Ethiopians and Kenyans are great runners. It is a matter of conjecture.
i believe ryan hall is originally from big bear lake, ca. (not washington)
The Africans have this also.
http://www.boingboing.net/2007/04/22/mursi_tribeswoman_wi.html
the east african advantage is geography that INFLUENCES DIRCETLY THE PHYSIOLOGY!
NativeSon wrote
Nobody really knows why East Africans and especially Ethiopians and Kenyans are great runners. It is a matter of conjecture.
I think it has a lot to do with their lifestyle. Compared to the average letsrun poster, they do a considerably larger volume of excercise from a young age, and this makes them very much fitter.
If you add just a medium amount of running at various paces to this basic fitness, you have a very fast runner.
Not sure where he was born, but he went to HS in California.
Pretty sure Ryan got to Big Bear when he was 5.
Even so...generations upon generations have lived in Colorado and other high altitude areas but our best runners don't always come from there. Their advantage is mostly environmental. Their best athletes run or play soccer. When soccer doesn't pan out then they run. Their daily lifestyle is similar to that of a 1950-60s midwestern child....the kind of child that becomes a 1970s-80s runner. Since 1980 there has been a major influx of laziness in this country as well as more sport choices and more focus on these other sports. It also helps that they have a genetic predisposition to being 5'6' 110 lbs. If you are tiny you have a better chance of becoming a fast endurance athlete. If you take a random sampling of 1000 East Africans and 1000 Europeans and a 1000 Americans at different ages (10, 15, 20, 25) you'll find the East Africans 1)have less muscle mass 2)have less body fat and 3)weigh less. Even if America and Europe weren't so FAT you'd still see that we have more muscle mass and weigh more because of this natural inclination.
Alan
I agree with what you are saying mostly, except for this bit.This kind of dominates the rest of your argument, sounds something like,'when i was a kid, we had to walk 5 miles to school everyday'older people have been saying that for generationsyour arguments are smarter than that
Runningart2004 wrote:
Since 1980 there has been a major influx of laziness in this country as well as more sport choices and more focus on these other sports. Alan
What any one individual from any country does or doesn't do in running has no bearing on population comparisons. Ryan Hall's performance in London has no bearing whatever on either the existance of, or the mechanism of action allowing East African dominance at distance running. The argument is not whether any individual from any geographical area has the physiological advantages we call "talent" but about the unequal dispersal of these advantages among different populations. The Kenyan/Ethiopian/Rift Valley bell curve has a higher mean and possibly higher outliers than the European bell curve. Nothing in this implies that one of our outliers might be as good as theirs, simply that we will have fewer.
anEconomist wrote:
I agree with what you are saying mostly, except for this bit.
This kind of dominates the rest of your argument, sounds something like,
'when i was a kid, we had to walk 5 miles to school everyday'
When I was a kid (1980s), I did walk to school, bout a half mile, and rode my bike everyday. You don't see that anymore. You don't see kids playing outside.
Alan
Steve Jones,Lopes,Kennedy,Moocroft,Coe,...all not born and raised at altitude.2:08 is great but it's not so special even for a whitey.
their advantage is their mentallity.