Food for Thought: The 1500m at the Olympic Level

the split was actually 1:46. rui silva ran a faster 800 than lagat or elg.

Silva probably ran something close to 1:44 high. He is nowhere on the screen at the bell.

You are an idiot

Kirk Cameron as Jean Valjean wrote:

Silva probably ran something close to 1:44 high. He is nowhere on the screen at the bell.

Muger Cement wrote:

El Guerruoj's last 800m at Athens, 1:45.19 (53.28/51.91)

I'm not sure that's correct. According to the article linked below, the 53.28 was for El G's third full lap (800 to 1200), while the 51.91 was for his final full lap (1100 to 1500). His last 800 was actually just under 1:47, because they were still dawdling between 700m and 800m.

That's still extremely fast, but it's not unprecedented -- Abdi Bile closed in 1:46.8 at the 1987 World Champs in Rome, and others have done it too, albeit in slower races than the 2004 final.

Still, the bottom line is the same: to compete on the world stage, you need speed. (Which makes it all the more remarkable that a guy like Kevin Sullivan could snag 5th at the 2000 Olympics, with a lifetime PR of 1:47 that he hasn't come close to in ages.)

Though it says a lot for speed, I think it even echos loudest for aerobic power. These guys were able to come within ~4 seconds of their 700m potential after already running 800 meters. If that doesn't say aerobic efficiency, I don't know what does.

Kirk Cameron as Jean Valjean wrote:

Silva probably ran something close to 1:44 high. He is nowhere on the screen at the bell.

Sure he was, Silva was the guy in the 2nd lane moving up fast (see pic), 9th at the bell 1.0 behind, 7th with 300m to go, 4th with 200 to go 0.6 behind.

Athens 1500

0400 60.42 Songkok (El G 5th)

0700 1:47.3 El G (Silva -0.7)

0800 2:01.93 (61.91) El Guerrouj

1100 2:42.2 El G (Silva -1.0)

1200 2:55.21 (53.28) El Guerrouj

1500 3:34.18 (38.97) El Guerrouj

“to go”

0800 14.4 28.2 54.9 1:46.9 (Silva 1:46.2)

0900 13.8

1000 13.4 26.7

1100 13.3

1200 12.9 25.8 52.0 (Silva’s last 400 was approx. 51.0)

1300 12.9

1400 12.7 26.2

1500 13.5

1 3:34.18 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR

2 3:34.30 Bernard Lagat KEN

3 3:34.68 Rui Silva POR

4 3:35.61 Timothy Kiptanui KEN

5 3:35.82 Ivan Heshko UKR

6 3:36.33 Michael East GBR

7 3:36.63 Reyes Estévez ESP

8 3:37.17 Gert-Jan Liefers NED

Silva at the bell:

i've watched that video so many times, and i've never noticed that. He was definitely about third to last going into the bell lap.

malmo wrote:

1200 12.9 25.8 52.0 (Silva’s last 400 was approx. 51.0)

1300 12.9

1400 12.7 26.2

1500 13.5

1 3:34.18 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR

2 3:34.30 Bernard Lagat KEN

3 3:34.68 Rui Silva POR

4 3:35.61 Timothy Kiptanui KEN

5 3:35.82 Ivan Heshko UKR

6 3:36.33 Michael East GBR

7 3:36.63 Reyes Estévez ESP

8 3:37.17 Gert-Jan Liefers NED

Excuse me, Silva's last lap would have been about 51.4.

midwesta wrote:

i've watched that video so many times, and i've never noticed that. He was definitely about third to last going into the bell lap.

He's (Silva) clearly ahead of three runners at the bell, probably =8th.

none the less it was f'n amazing. i wish i had his drugs

Kirk Cameron as Jean Valjean wrote:

Silva probably ran something close to 1:44 high. He is nowhere on the screen at the bell.

The reason why many (you're not alone) have a faulty memory how that last lap actually played out is because this image of Silva in 11th, about 40m before the bell lap, is imprinted in your memory.

Look where he would be at the bell.

Yeah, Silva ran his last 800 in high 1:45, but he was third. Lagat and El G ran a similar 800 split and they beat him. I think that is more impressive. Still though, I thought it was pretty F'n crazy when I saw their third lap split was 53. That takes some balls. That is why Alan Webb will never medal in the 1500 unless he drastically improves his kick. At the USA champs in 2005 he ran 53 for his last lap off of 3:01 or something. Some guys can run 50.x off of that pace.

So the question is, if Silva would've been in better position before the bell, could he have beaten El Guerrouj for the gold- what an upset that would've been! Oh well, I guess we'll never know.

And, oh yeah, El Guerrouj runs like an arabian horse.

roper wrote:

Yeah, Silva ran his last 800 in high 1:45, but he was third.

Silva's last 800 was 1:46.7. He was 1:48.0 with 800 to go.

There is a wide gap between what people think happened at the 2004 Athens 1500 and what actually did. So let me summarize it:

Athens 1500, final results

1 3:34.18 Hicham El Guerrouj MAR

2 3:34.30 Bernard Lagat KEN

3 3:34.68 Rui Silva POR

4 3:35.61 Timothy Kiptanui KEN

5 3:35.82 Ivan Heshko UKR

6 3:36.33 Michael East GBR

7 3:36.63 Reyes Estévez ESP

8 3:37.17 Gert-Jan Liefers NED

Splits

0400 60.42 Songkok (El G 5th)

0700 1:47.3 El G (Silva -0.7)

0800 2:01.93 (61.91) El Guerrouj

1100 2:42.2 El G (Silva -1.1)

1200 2:55.21 (53.28) El Guerrouj

1500 3:34.18 (38.97) El Guerrouj

“to go” splits, El Guerrouj leads the last 800

800 14.4 28.2 54.9 1:46.9 (Silva 1:46.7)

700 13.8

600 13.4 26.7

500 13.3

400 12.9 25.8 52.0 (Silva’s last 400 was approx. 51.4)

300 12.9

200 12.7 26.2

100 13.5

Silva on the outside, 1:48.0 with two laps to go. His last 800 was 1:46.7. El Guerrouj had the lead at 1:47.3. El Guerrouj's last 800 was 1:46.9.

Silva in 11th, about 30m before the bell lap. Look where he would be at the bell.

[/quote]

El Guerrouj at the bell, 2:42.2

Silva was the guy in the 2nd lane moving up fast.

Silva 9th at the bell, 2:43.3, 1.1s behind, 7th with 300m to go, 4th with 200 to go 0.6 behind.

Silva just past the bell, =8th place.

malmo wrote:

Splits

0400 60.42 Songkok (El G 5th)

0700 1:47.3 El G (Silva -0.7)

0800 2:01.93 (61.91) El Guerrouj

1100 2:42.2 El G (Silva -1.1)

1200 2:55.21 (53.28) El Guerrouj

1500 3:34.18 (38.97) El Guerrouj

“to go” splits, El Guerrouj leads the last 800

800 14.4 28.2 54.9 1:46.9 (Silva 1:46.7)

700 13.8

600 13.4 26.7

500 13.3

400 12.9 25.8 52.0 (Silva’s last 400 was approx. 51.4)

300 12.9

200 12.7 26.2

100 13.5

Once more. After reviewing the tape over and over I'd say his next to last 100m split was 13.0, not 12.7, which makes his last 100 13.2.

“to go” splits, El Guerrouj leads the last 800

800 14.4 28.2 54.9 1:46.9 (Silva 1:46.7)

700 13.8

600 13.4 26.7

500 13.3

400 12.9 25.8 52.0 (Silva’s last 400 was approx. 51.4)

300 12.9

200 13.0 26.2

100 13.2

Official Splits for 2004 Athens 1500m Final via Track & Field News.

Hicham El Guerruoj (MOR), 3:34.18

60.9, 2:01.93 (61.0), 2:55.21 (53.3), 39.0

(13.1, 26.2, 51.9, 1:46.7, 2:49.2)

Bernard Lagat (KEN), 3:34.30

60.7, 2:02.1 (61.4), 2:55.4 (53.3), 38.9

(13.1, 26.1, 51.9, 1:46.8, 2:49.4)

Rui Silva (POR), 3:34.68

61.4, 2:03.2 (61.8), 2:56.2 (53.0), 38.5

(13.1, 25.9, 51.3, 1:46.3, 2:49.3)

The difference between GOLD and BRONZE is a push from 1200m out instead of 800m out... best kicking non-medallist (4th, Timothy Kiptanui from Kenya), closed his last 800m in 1:47.8

So, Silva's last 800m was 1:46.3