Interesting story for all those concerned with the elite v recreational runner

Very interesting story. I think most runners have a dilema as to balanace work with running and trying to get better as they get older. The rock and the hardplace thing for me is I feel like I am working to just stay in shape and not get slower, but in reality I wish I was getting faster.

I just think that it is great that you have been able to improve by so much by means of a concerted effort. (3:35 to 2:44 and 21:37 to 16:38 are definitely big jumps)

Ignore the lady with the dumb comment about slower people going through more pain. It reminds me of the several times I have heard that doing an Ironman takes 6 months off your life. Where people come up with shit like that I have no idea.

I remember Grete Waitz talking about how difficult it was to run so slow with Lenow one year at NYCM.

My slowest marathons have been the most painful (mentally and physically).

I started running 3 years ago and ran 3:38 first time out. I ran 2:42 last year and 16:21 a few weeks ago.

Shooting for 2:35, 33:00, and 16:00 this year.

The world is full of stupid people who think their opinions count for something. Don't let it get under your skin.

Slower runners in a marathon do suffer more pain on average.

Don't forget that the objective isn't to suffer more, it is to run as fast as you can.

It's different kind of "pain." I don't think it compares at abny distance beliow a half marathon -- at 5k it's NO comparison -- but when you start talking about running for 5 hours (without walking unless "forced to") the pain accumulates.

That said, there's a huge disconnect between (a) the person who barely qualifies for Boston and limps the last 12mi but finishes, and (b) the guy who's shooting for, say, a sub-2:22 and if he slows down and the goal gets away from him, he drops out and books a flight to his "backup race" in 3 weeks. Person (a) generally looks very unfavorably on person (b).

If I understand that lady's reasoning, you could take 2 guys of equal ability and put them in a 10k or whatever, and the guy that runs slower must be the guy who puts himself through more pain. ?

It's probably true "that people who are out there running longer go through more pain"... because they weren't prepared to go through the pain when it mattered - in the weeks and months beforehand, getting up early, or going out late to make sure they get the training in, putting in the miles, putting in the efforts.

21:37 down to 16:38 is cracking stuff. Keep up the good work - and don't ever apologise for pushing yourself hard and trying to be the best you can.

That's what I assumed she meant as well, and it makes no sense to me.

I got to thinking--is this a factor in distance running's failure to hold the attention of the general public? After all, usually the leaders of major marathons manage to stay physically composed, in order to conserve energy and psyche out opponents. Maybe your average joe looks at a kenyan cruising to victory and figures he's some genetic freak that can run at unusual speeds, and therefore isn't worth watching.

In most cases, (not all), a person that would say something like in the oringal poster's story, does little or no training compared with the winner of a local 5K. So, the better runner has gone thru a hell of a lot more pain in preparing for the race. However, most ppl dont see all the training you do. This women most likely sat on her ass most of time, ran a couple of times a week at most, and came out to race. She is probably going thru more pain during the race, but if you look at the amount of pain in race preparation and the race together, the 5K winner guy most likely has gone thru a ton more pain.

To get in 16:38 shape, one has to spend more overall time training at quality paces than those who jog it in just under 30 minutes. Thus, YOU SIR, have suffered more and endured more pain overall than Jane "20 minutes, 3 days/wk. on the treadmill" Jogger.

My reply to those who can't grasp the concept of self improvement:

"I've upped my personal standards. Now, up yours!"

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll be shooting for low 16's or even high 15's for the end of the fall, along for that 2:35-2:37 at Columbus.

that woman really was stupid. Like many others have already said, the reason she and the other wanderers (30 minutes for a 5K is wandering, not running) are in pain is because they did not train adequately, so come race day the effort required to complete the distance is harder and more painful than it has to be. It's logical. Another problem with this woman's train of thought, is that a lot of recreational runners view running as a painful activity. I was running with a woman a few years ago who carried a bottle of advil on her runs and was dumbfounded that I could go on a 14 miler without having any pain. This misconception adds to the mistaken notion that elite runners are genetic freaks and overly competitive sado-masochists. I think that Galloway has recognized this and capitalized on it with his comment about how his training allows people to complete races without puking.

I would agree with most on this board when they say that the pain comes in your training. No one sees you doing that tempo run, slogging through 10 miles at training pace or doing repeat 400's at the track. As a runner you subject yourself to pain and discomfort everyday so that the results on raceday are what you want them to be. I've run 5k's and seen the people who jog for a half-hour three days a week. They are in pain. Only because they fail to recognize the sheer committment it takes to be one of the people in the lead pack.

These people don't anger me so much anymore. I've accepted the fact that I've been lucky to be exposed to the sport by good coaches at the high school level and friends and teammates who push each other when training. Alot, of people at road races or as some see them now, 'celebrations', see the 5k or 10k as their peak running experience. I don't fault them for it because, the fact that they have been as exposed to higher levels of training is not my fault. When I hear snide comments I let them roll of my back. You shouldn't let someone else ruin your experience of running 16:38, enjoy it and aim higher.

I was just about to say the same thing:

"Champions are made when no one is looking", not sure where the quote came from and I think it is just part of a bigger one. But it fits here. The woman may be on a once a week training program and could not understand that people may actually run everyday (I have heard that there are some people who actually run twice a day, but I don't believe that for a minute). So her "painful" 5k race is the same painful once a week run she has been doing. While the winners are just blessed with natural talent.

Great improvement and keep up the hard work!

I've come to the conclusion that if you are really training and have set goals for yourself, do not try to place yourself in the same catagory "Runner".

Running apparantly conjures up a number of fantasies or images for different folks, and yes, even though we all perform relatively the same motion of going forward (even walking) there are so many levels of the same "motion" that we cannot all be classified the same.

If you don't like to be lumped with the Penquins, try not to think of yourself as running the same event. You are in a catagory by yourself and those that are trying to achieve something. Choose races and events that promote high levels of competition.

I agree the pain comes in the training, its as simple as that!! but here is an interesting spin on the discussion

most people do appreciate the effort of top athletes but usually only the ones that they share a common bond with - fellow conutryman - friend of a friend, school college etc..

There has become a tendancy to say about distance running that it is so dominated by africans that the average person watching it cant identify with the person who is the elite athlete, marathon runners are generally not the most extroverted people around so explaining the work they have put into their race often never gets communicated.

I just picked up a brochure for next years london marathon and there was only one out of 50 pages dedicated to the elite athletes and their accomplishments. More focus must be put on the massive sacrifices these people make and just how hard they actually work in order to get there.

In the mean time as a once semi-elite athlete and now just a jogger I always remind people I run with just how good the elite guys are and say things like just imagine an elite guy is doing three of these sessions today alone!!!

Case in point everyone knows Lance Armstrong but very few know Kenese Bekele.

Well, I think that lady did have a point. As many others noted above, a jogger trying to run a marathon or even a 10k w/o enough or any good training is in lots of pain. Whereas the trained runner may be in some pain, but it is most likely something he lives with a few times a week (the harder days).

We all have days where we train hard but no longer do I dread such days. Rather, I revel in the pain. I have learned to live with it. I know it is doing the body good and will make me faster. If I am suffering, I look forward to the finish and a cold drink. So it may be pain, but I love it.

I don't think the jogger has gotten to that place where they enjoy the pain.

Not sure she was intentionally being rude or not. Being someone with a distinct cartiledge deficincy, the "more pain" argument doesn't fly with me if you're slower OR faster. I'd be willing to bet I experience more pain than the vast majority on this board, doesn't have a damn bit to do with running ability (or lack of it).

In any case I don't see her as a representative sample of "slow runners". I can come up with a fair number of "if you aren't trying to win why bother showing up" style comments going the other way (many similar to the Galloway/Bingham thread comments) so it's just an example of rudeness knowing no bounds.

I'd put that crack in the same vein as the "Run Forrest Run" comments that come from testosterone poisoned high-schoolers out for a drive. Annoying for sure, but nothing I'm going to use to classify all high school males with.