Japanese Marathon Training Methods

They are Lydiard junkies. Nakamura started that movement in Japan. Lots of miles and some paced runs. Not complicated just an enormous volume of work.

Lots of volume at a very slow pace, punctuated by occasional fast track workouts of the 1 - 3k variety and tempo. Pace at times can be 8 - 9+ per mile and often includes walking. Between runs and walks - up to 3 workouts per day. Also, long runs 30K - 40K+ starting very slow, gradually increasing the pace until race pace is reached in the last 5-10K. Slow training is often done in full sweats and in what we would consider racing flats. Most training is done under the watchful eye of the coach and assistants. Barefoot/sockfoot jogging around the infield of tracks.

Two things they value a lot that I can tell you: one is a long-term planning and committment; the other is individualism. For one, they don't "generalize" things. Sure, "in general" they run more mileage at slower speed. I've given this example often before but under the same coach, Yoshio Koide, Takahashi would run up to 70km a day at slower pace while Chiba would do shorter (30k) faster. Takahashi at 2:19 and Chiba at 2:21. Shibui would go after the All Comer record tonight at Osaka Ladies marathon. I received an e-mail from his coach the other day and he said this time, because it takes a long time for her to recover from the workout, they omitted a 40km run completely and did more 20k and 30k faster. We'll find out if that was the right direction for her. They pay more attention to "what actually works" than try to come up with some formula and generalize things.

Incidentally, despite all this, unlike someone said that they are Lydiard junkie with lots of long slow running; Shibui's coach went to visit Lydiard and stayed at his place for 10 months in mid-90s and that's how I got to know him. I saw the former head of JAAA last November at Tokyo marathon. I told him what we are trying to do with Lydiard Foundation. He said, "Lydiard made what Japanese marathoning today." Koide said the same thing. But they didn't just follow the numbers or schedue. They certainly understand the principles of it and adopted it.

Nobby, i literally eat this stuff up, i could listen to you talk about japanese marathoning ALL DAY (not all day, at some point i get too pumped up and have to go run!) but its great.

basically, i'm hinting to talk about it all day ;).

Nobby or someone else in the know,

it seems that Japanese runners have a much stronger marathon time then they do 5k/10k equivalent. Why is this and any crazy examples like a 15:50 2:22 women marathoner???

I just received a book written by Toshihiko Seko a couple of days ago. I'm at the last chapter now. He talks about the kind of training he did for early in his career, his prime (Tokyo marathon 1983), and for track National 10000m record (27:43) AND the reason why he did the way he did it. One of the best "gold mine for Japanese marathon training" book I've ever read. Another one is a book by Koide.

One of the advantages in Japan is, as much as these things are companie's secret (because of the corporate team system), coaches still get together and talk about it. Coach Suzuki, coac of Tosa and Shibui, is a good friend of coach Kawagoe, whose team, Shiseido, won the national ekiden relay championships last month with Suzuki's team close second. I sent him a congratulation message. He replied and said that he and Suzuki often get together and talk about training over sake. "It was great to pay him back by beating his team," he said. Most of these coaches, including Koide, have been influenced by Nakamura who coached Seko and, yeah, he was a huge fan of Lydiardism. I got to know coach kawagoe last year at Boston where his runner, Shimahara, finished 5th. Knowing that I'm the Lydiard guy (we both contributed articles on Lydiardism for the Japanese running magazine after Arthur passed away), he came to me and introduced himself to me. We went to a coffee shop (Starback by Copley) and talked about training for a couple of hours. I get blown off by a high school coach here...

Are any of those books you mentioned written in English? I would love to read any of them, especially Seko's.

I don't think Japanese understand anaerobic training as well to handle fast running on track--5k, 10k or middle distance. They run a lot to develop great aerobic base but when it's time to do anaerobic training, they do them too much and too hard and counter a good aerobic base that they developed. This is particularly so with middle distance running. The country that has produced so many great marathon runners as well as some decent sprinters (bronze in 200 at Paris, 10.0 by Itoh, relay team almost always go in the final, etc.) with the national indoor mile record (though mile is rarely run in Japan) of 4:01!? C'mon! They should be flirting 3:50. Also, their track people don't seem to pay as much attention to technique to run fast. They should read the book written by Brooks Johnson! Some of the "decent" marathon runners form is absolutely terrible!

Sorry, no. That's my trade secret and advantage, isn't it! ;o)

i cannot offer any specifics, but there is a group of japanese women that has been training here in albuquerque for the past couple of months. we see them on the trail at three different times of the day, mostly at speeds that many would consider jogging.

in a nearby park i saw one of them doing a variety of drills and 50 meter sprints, all up a very slight incline.

that's about it. except they all are training in racing flats and running with ipods.

By the way, a part of Seko's training (in his early career) and Inubushi's training leading up to his 2:06 marathon should be available at Bob Hodgie-san's website: http://www.bunnhill.com/BobHodge/Default.htm

Nobby, go ahead, keep talking...

i always enjoy what you have to say.

thanks.

Nobby,

Is that true that Seko-San used to walk up to 30Km (18 miles) when he could not run because an injury, just to mantain his fitness?

Bob Wildes wrote:

Are any of those books you mentioned written in English? I would love to read any of them, especially Seko's.

I believe it talks about Seko's training in Running with the Legends.

Yes I have that and was a great piece. I particularly liked the part where he would drink around 10 beers because his stomach was too upset to accept food.

Yes. He used to walk 5km one way to college with a rock in his each hand, wearing factory safety shoes with steel toes. I don't think he wore those shoes when he walked 30k during his injury but yes, he did walk up to 30k. Of course, I can't remember exactly how long it took him but it was something like 4 or 5 hours walk. I recently walked up to 2-hours when my Achilles was sore and couldn't run. I have a bit of a mixed feeling about walking but when you can't run, it's a good alternative. Japanese runners do walk quite a bit. For the preparation phase, Takahashi walks a lot too, up and down the foothills in Boulder. They call that "leg-strengthening phase". They believe that you've got to build strong legs to be able to take poundings in the marathon. Before they go into marathon specifc training, which usually last about 3 months, they do this "leg-strengthening" phase for about 3 months. This collerate overall flow of Lydiard program--3 months of marathon conditioning before you move onto event specific training for 3 months.

One thing in that book that I didn't like was when Mr. Okamoto said that Nakamura was producing a bunch of "robots" with his strict discipline regime. I know Mr. Seko; I met the late Nakamura; and I know Mr. Okamoto too but I don't know he knew exactly how Nakamura was preaching his runners. Nakamura-sensei was a great guy.

That book, by the way, is a great book and a must-read.

Jaguar1:

Great to see your name again ;o) I would like to let you know; when I walked for 2-hours, I walked in ASICS HyperPaw--one of those street shoes with no cushion at all with very thin sole. Why walk in the cast when you can move your feet around in "minimalist" shoes?

Here's one more thing about Japanese "myth". Yes, most Japanese runners train in racing flats. Again, it is because it works best. In Tosa's case, she has had a lot of problems with her feet and ankles, stress fructures and all, and decided to train in "their" training flats--"their training flats" I mean like ASICS Tarther which is more or less equivalent of US racing flats--before last year's Boston and Tokyo women's marathon. She said she had one of the best injury-free preparations for these two marathons. They do what works for them.

Hello Nobby-san,

Agree with above: would happily listen to you talk all day. And I have often been curious about Japanese marathon training techniques. I think we all know they do very high mileage. But can you comment on the mix of long slow runs versus marathon pace runs versus tempo runs (or, as Bill Baillie would say "you mean fast stuff and slow stuff")?

I think you could consider translating the Seko book. You may have a market.

Also, last I checked your Lydiard site was still partially under construction. Hope it is going well. If you come out to the west coast sometime, let us know.