OPPOSITE arm/foot forward at the starting line!

You're right. I just watched the start of the Munich 5000 and Pre started wrong.

I've never known what foot you're supposed to start with. I put the left one first because that's what most people do (because they're right-handed?) but there's some coordination business that I'm missing. Maybe it's the arm thing.

Try this: Left foot on starting line. First step is with left foot with left arm forward. You won't have any balance problem and you won't rock back on your right foot.

Okay, let's go through this again.

When you're running, if your left foot is forward, your right arm is forward. Agreed?

But if you're on the starting line with your left foot AND left arm forward, what *has* to happen? At some point in the first step or two, the arms have to "catch up" so they can balance the legs. So in that first couple of steps the arms have to--*have* to--move in an inefficient way.

I'll admit I could have misinterpreted your post. By "first step is with left foot" you might mean "step forward with the left foot" and not "push off on left foot." But even if you "step forward with the left foot," your first step is, what, 15 inches or so? And you *still* have to get the arms and legs to synchronize...

Unquestionably, the best set position for a distance race--assuming your balance can handle it, and I'll grant that not everyone's can (though the great majority can)--is to have one foot (the left, say) on the starting line; the other foot a ways behind the line; one arm (in this case, the right) forward, bent somewhat at the elbow; and the other arm back, also bent some at the elbow. Both feet point in the direction you intend to go--don't point the rear foot sideways, if that's not where you wanna go--and both knees are somewhat bent. This set position most closely imitates that accelerating position that your body takes in the few steps that it takes to get up to speed.

At the gun, the *rear* foot actually make the first, brief, push--though most don't notice it--then the front foot makes a push that lasts longer, as the rear leg (in this example, the right) swings through. As the right knee comes forward, the right elbow moves back, and you're on your way.

My coach in high school used to have us just stand naturally, both legs together. A teammate would push you in your back and whatever foot you take a step with (to maintain balance) would be the foot he told us to have at the starting line with the other foot back. We also did drills a couple of times a week on starts, making sure our opposite arm is forward, and we try to push off with the front foot, having the back leg take the first step. He would tell us that if you picked up your front foot at the start first, you lose time. It completely makes sense to me and I understand the point you are trying to make.

Here is the proper distance starting technique, as demonstrated by Lydiard man Bill Baillie (outside lane in Kiwi black):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB_YeSaDJvo

Notice that this brilliant technique, a Lydiard innovation, obviates the decision of which arm is forward.

aoindgfs wrote:

My coach in high school used to have us just stand naturally, both legs together. A teammate would push you in your back and whatever foot you take a step with (to maintain balance) would be the foot he told us to have at the starting line with the other foot back. .

Your coach had the right idea but then he applied the information wrong or else you weren't paying attention. Whichever foot goes forward first should then be back from the starting line.

Watch high school kids run the 300 indoors without blocks. See how many rock back before they move forward. (quite a few)

reversing the feet solves the problem and lowers their overall time.

think about it... wrote:

Okay, I was watching some running videos, including the starts of distance races. I'm sad to think that distance runners are (apparently) no better coached in their starts now than they were 30 years ago. Here we go:

If you stand at the starting line with your left foot (say) at the line, and your right foot back--which arm should be forward? The RIGHT arm. You may have noticed that, when you're running, your right arm moves forward when your left leg moves forward. Why should the start be different?

....only on Letsrun.... bravo, dumb thread of 2007 locked down in just a week.

pretty pointless

this is kind of like the advice about running I once heard on a tape on training in the 80's

"remember to alternate feet"

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....only on Letsrun.... bravo, dumb thread of 2007 locked down in just a week.[/quote]

How is this thread dumb? My favorite example of this technique was watching Sam Burley's start at my conference championships his senior year. He did it correctly, whereas probably over half the other guys in the field did it incorrectly. Yeah, it may seem trivial and dumb, but just a few weeks later, Burley won NCAA's in a dead heat. The distance he won by was certainly less than the distance he gained by making his first step with his rear foot and not the '15-incher' with his front foot.

The differnce that the start makes is much bigger than the fraction of a second delay off the line. In a crowded race, a fraction of a second can be the difference between getting out in the top 3 or 4 and getting out in the back of the pack. Being boxed by a bunch of slower people will hurt your time by much more than the time it takes to switch your arms at the line.

A much worse starting technique can be seen at just about any high school meet. Watch the 4x800. Every kid will stand with his back to the infield and take the baton with his right hand. Most people start open races with their left foot forward so it seems more natural to them to start at the beginning of the exchange zone like that as well. I did it when I was in high school, but my coach in college showed us that facing the infield and taking it with your left hand makes more sense since you are going to be turning to the left. Taking it with the left hand never felt as comfortable or natural for me, but it definitely felt a lot faster.

You are exploding off the line. If you stand in mid-stride as your starting position you will be completely off balance and have an incredibly slow reaction time to the gun. The OP is the biggest dumbass ever. He talks about what the body does "naturally" in terms of biomechanics but completely ignores the fact that when anyone lines up they "naturally" start in the same arm forward/same foot forward position.

regardless of which foot toes the line, left are forward is an easy way of giving yourself some more room to move to an inside lane before the guy to your left. just like boxing out on a free throw...

...left arm...

Clueless! wrote:

You are exploding off the line. If you stand in mid-stride as your starting position you will be completely off balance and have an incredibly slow reaction time to the gun. The OP is the biggest dumbass ever. He talks about what the body does "naturally" in terms of biomechanics but completely ignores the fact that when anyone lines up they "naturally" start in the same arm forward/same foot forward position.

CLUELESS, me says "you are the biggest dumba$$ ever" and clueless to boot. The OP is absolutely 100% correct. You come off the line RUNNING. When left leg and left arm are both out front, you always do a stuh, stuh, stutter-step before your 1st full stride; you can't do otherwise. I prefer right foot forward and left arm; it allows you to crowd into the guy outside you. Don't tell me a sound start isn't important at Madison Square Garden, or a 20 plus field in a Euro 1500, or worse...a mile. Didn't Valeriy Borzov win 1974 European 100 with this very starting technique, using 1 block? Me thinks he did. Just like the OP, I am surprised at the number of elites/internationals who don't use this PROPER technique. By the way, Clueless, this "unnatural" start can be learned easily with a few practice starts, and reminding yourself at the line. Clueless, why don't you practice both ways a few times and get back to us...you might be pleasantly surprised.

Let's continue this debate; it's a good one.

Thanks for the support, lads, and don't be too hard on Clueless--I can see where my wording might have led him wrong.

When I say that the other foot should be back, with the knee bent, I don't mean that that foot should be in the air! If that's how Clueless read it, he's right: that would be almost impossible to hold in a set position.

What I meant was that the rear foot should be *on the track* with the rear leg somewhat bent at the knee. In fact, the ball of the rear foot is firmly grounded; remember, the rear foot makes the first push, though the push you notice is the one from the front leg. (Sprinters do the same thing in their starting blocks, by the way: very brief, sharp push from the rear foot *followed* by a longer push off the front block. This is why you coach sprinters to firmly load both feet into the blocks...)

As is so often true in running, a useful teaching tip is to have the runner (in the set position) focus on the *backward* movement of that front elbow when the gun goes off. As that elbow zooms back, the rear leg steps through and you're on your way.

As to its feeling "natural" to have the same-side arm and leg forward--I know that's true for some people, but with a bit of practice the opposite arm/leg start feels just as natural, and better balanced to boot. But you do have a choice of starting positions; by contrast, you don't get to *choose* same-side-or-opposite when you're actually running--nobody (except the guys on a Greek urn) can run same-side. So it makes sense to choose the starting position (opposite arm/leg forward) that best leads to your running position!

Now, to add a bit of fuel to the fire: You get a few seconds of alactic anaerobic running at the start of any race, during which you get to run essentially as fast as you want with no lactic acid production. So if you're coaching a sound start, you also want to coach the athlete to get up to speed immediately by really sprinting off the line. Now, it may only take four to six steps for the distance runner to get up to his race pace, and I'd be very wary of coaching him to sprint farther than that--the temptation might be to blow out the first 200 and build a huge oxygen deficit--but in theory he could get maybe 30m with no lactic acid penalty.

In any case, I never wanted a runner--even in a 10k--to "walk" off the starting line. (Even pace is not the same as even effort!) If you go to the line with the mindset of a sound start, it feeds into a sense of controlling your own race--of taking charge of your own pace, right from the gun. And I think a take-charge attitude is key to one's best competitive effort.

i learned this my senior year and hs. we were at practice doing 800m repeats when the sprint coach happened to walk by. she showed us how to do it right and i thought it was hiarious that not one person running distance started correctly.