Euro Trials: Sefton Park, Liverpool

To some of the lsat feew posters, can people clarify whether they mean Steve or Andy Vernon, two runners currently at very similiar ability levels!

Am guessing that the guy directly before was talking about Andy in hte under 23s though as can't see Steve winning Euro cross!

Full team should medal, be interesting to see...

Whose the main competition Spain and France if they get their full squad out I'm guessing..

i heard jermaine mays had a very good result yesterday in holland, only 5 secs behind the pre-selected pete riley over 10k xc. should definately stand a chance of selection if he runs well in ekiden relays

Unfortunately he injured himself in the process. Good run though and would have been in with a shout.

Phil Wicks must have a good chance of making the U23 team after his run in the Surrey League where he beat Lobb.

Steve Vernon to win

Any ideas of where you can get the results from this dutch XC race?

I reckon the european cross country champs are the worst thing thats happenened to british distance running in a long time. What is the point of it, its a poor standard relative to world terms as shown by the british teams performance in recent world cross events and only leads to athletes attempting to peak in december when the real events dont start till march. The best runners in the world only start training in october/november after their end of season break and are running well when it matters, the world cross giving them a strong background for a good track season. This is why the UK has no one who is running well at 10k and a few at 5k. The fact that UK athletics priortise this event is a joke and is only leading to worse standards because the majority of uk runners never build a decent endurance base, prefering to do sessions all year round! Bideau said as much in his recent article and he was spot on!

totally agree

I totally agree as well! So many athletes make the mistake of focusing on the short term and not the long term! Did the likes of Moorcroft, Foster and Buckner run two major cross races before Christmas? The answer is no they were just putting in the miles and lots of them. The Americans dont have the distraction of the Europeans and seem to have more runners competing well in the summer!

Go the Buffs

I see the point you are trying to make but have to disagree for a few reasons. Remember the year John Brown won Europeans by a mile and afterwards said in several interviews that he had done perhaps 3 or 4 hard sessions. Well I would hope Mo Farah, Chris Thompson, Peter Riley etc would be doing the same. Buidling a base just now with the ultimate intention of running well next summer but they should be in good enough shape to run well in December. If you think about it most of the big name Africans usually open at one of the cross country races in Europe in December/January and it does not seem to affect their track/WC preparation.

Also I dont think your use of the US to base your argument on is a good one due to the fact that even some of the US runners running exceptionally well on the track run a hard cross country season which involves peaking in November.

I guess the point should be for the guys in the 5-10 spots have to decide to peak for the Euro trial and have it affect their next summer or else run the trial off their base and hope that by teh time the next year comes around they have reached the level where they can make the team when not fully fit.

You point with Jon Brown shows how it should be done but British atheles don't tend to follow that program. They are already trying to get sharp for the trial.

I am talking about the pro athletes who have left college in the US who are now running 13.15 or quicker. I dont see any of their college athletes running that quick which might indicate that the pre christmas cross season burns them out and that once they leave college and then only race cross in the spring it makes a large difference to their times!

I don't know what Farah and Thompson do training wise but seeing that they have both gone over to South Africa, I would suspect that they are hammering out sessions! I don't see Mottram racing at cross country at the moment.

You also highlighted my point that the Africans open up their cross season in January! Many of the British runners have already done a Cross Challenge and by the 12th of December will have run 3 or 4 races.

Marc Rodrigues to win

1 GB great, sub 27.30 for 10k (that narrows it down) was asked at a squad w/end how he'd have fitted in the Euro XC if he had been still at his peak when the event started. he replied that he wouldn't really do anything substantially different in his autumn prep, would do the UK trial race as his sole XC race and then do the Euro Champs off that and would be confident to use that as a steppig stone towards the summer.

de la Ossa hasn't been compromised in his WXC or summer track races by focusing to a degree on the Euro XC in recent years and no doubt other egs can be found, particularly among the women.

I'm just guessing here, but to stand on the start line at WXC 12k and aspire to a medal you probably have to be, what, 26.40/26.50odd 10k type, so as no European has ever got anywhere near that level (I'll discount Mourhit here!) the Euro XC offers some really talented guys the only realistic chance to medal in an international XC champs.

davidch wrote:

I'm just guessing here, but to stand on the start line at WXC 12k and aspire to a medal you probably have to be, what, 26.40/26.50odd 10k type, so as no European has ever got anywhere near that level (I'll discount Mourhit here!) the Euro XC offers some really talented guys the only realistic chance to medal in an international XC champs.

That spanish chap who got one in Belfast excepted of course!

But point taken. That I don't think the europeans before christmas alters the fact that the reason we aren't as good as we were is because theres not as many people running hard as there were.

Yeah but we are never going to have any low 27 minute runners if we keep focusing on races in November and trying to be fit all year round. There are athletes who at the moment will hammer me over cross country but in the summer I know that over 5k I will easily beat them.

simo wrote:

But point taken. That I don't think the europeans before christmas alters the fact that the reason we aren't as good as we were is because theres not as many people running hard as there were.

We need to legislate then!!

Just because the callender is full doesnt mean Brits have to do every race going.

Its about having a plan and sticking with it , patience , is a word worth going with , periodisation is another.It is

not physically possible to be in top shape 12m of the year so decide on whats important to your long term development and have faith in your plan.

If it takes several years to get to the top , fine , dont

do every race every winter and complain of being burnt out.

the top europeans and Africans wont be racing every week and they will have an end of season REST , yes that word we are all scared of ! it does you good , and Mr Janes was correct , get an endurance base before trying to run very fast

Sincerely hope we get medals at Euro XC , but it wont be easy , look at position of Mays and Peter in that XC , ALL

Euro's infront , gonna be interesting !

First of all you obviously have not followed the US scene as much as I have. There have been several of their athletes who have run fast 13.15-13.30 the summer after a NCAA cross country campaign.

I do not know either what Farah and Thompson are doing but would hope that they are not hammering out sessions and are concentrating mostly on building a base before prob. heading back there after Christmas and then they can start hammering out the sessions. I think we are pretty much in agreement that UK athletes dont do it right but then who are we to argue against someone who wants to run a few cross country races to win a few bucks.

If people did train in the way Jon Brown did it would be ok, but Brown can get in that sort of shape beacuse he is a class act and in effect the european cross formed part of his base. However, i know for a fact that the majority of brits aiming for that team are not treating it in this way. This is why we have a number of 3.41/3.42 1500m runners who struggle to run in the 13.50s, with that type of speed 13.30 should be no problem! Im not saying these people will run really bad but its relative to what could be achieved with an endurance base. No one will change though because people are afraid to change old habits and do something different to their peers. How many years in row do people have to run 3.42 before they realise that 70 miles a week and 3 sessions all year is not the most efficient use of training! It really frustrates me because there are so many committed athletes that could perform a lot better if only they changed the focus of their training slightly and periodised their year better. Im no genius but its all simple stuff, shame the majority of athletes and coaches in this country don't realise this!