Team Hoyt: What are the PRs of dad pushing his disabled son?

He's using POSE

midwaste wrote:

disagree. One of the problems in a marathon (aside from glycogen depletion), especially for the bigger guys is the pounding your legs take. You unweight your legs to a certain degree, and your legs don't feel half as bad at 20 miles as they do if you're standing (or running in this case) upright with all your weight on them.

Also consider where the p.r. was run (at Boston), lots of downhill there, but the guy doesn't take the pounding on the quads he would if he were running upright. I imagine the wheelchair thingy has a set of brakes on it as well, so he doesn't need to modulate his speed with leg muscle, just with a pull of the brake levers.

I am almost 100% certain that Team Hoyt's PB in the marathon was set at an event other than Boston. I believe it was either Marine Corp.Marathon or DC Marathon. Can anyone confirm?

i believe that what the hoyt team has done is truly inspiring--but that is not the entire story. Dick is obsessive about what he does...so much so that it was the root cause of his divorce...he literally pushed his wife away (pun intended). while his feats are to be lauded, both his (and his son's) victories have come at a price.

The Hoyt contraction is more efficient than a baby jogger, true. To say it is more efficient than running alone is just stupid. He may be taking some weight off his legs while running downhill, but he can not use any arm swing, and on flat or uphill sections he has to push a 110 lb. man. There is no way the advantages out weigh the disadvantages.

I think that would be an awesome research project. I mean, think of how much position helps on a bike. I'm not going to say that running and cycling have that much in common, but it would be intersting to know.

As far as an advantage, maybe not at first, but after years of learning to run with the chair, i'm sure he's developed a specific effeciency with it, and perhaps has even gained some extra advantage, but I don't think it would equate to much... like i said, interesting.

But with that being said, the times he has run still have no bearing, at least to me, on the accomplishments of finishing the races they have. It truly is inspiring and the Hoyts are just awesome people. I feel the most noteworthy part is that he doesn't do it for fame or recognition, but because his son still loves it... just amazing.

Not to take anything away from him, but that 92 Boston time does not account for the 15 minute headstart given to the wheelchair athletes. So it really took him 2:55.

I actually passed him on Hereford Street in 92 (I have a picture to prove it). When I saw him ahead of me that late in the race, my thought was something like 'Holy f*ck.' He appeared a couple of place behind me in printed results.

so what does armswing do for you while running? confers balance no?

Now running with your arms at your sides is difficult and awkward (cycling in the same position feels similarly so), but running while holding onto something for balance is a whole heck of a lot easier.

Arms do not produce any significant amount of propulsion during marathon running. They are there for balance. Don't believe me? Try running 7:00 pace while pumping your arms furiously? Going any faster? Try pumping your arms furiously while sitting in a chair or standing? Going anywhere?

I agree that pushing the chair uphill is harder than normal running, but I'd be willing to bet that the flats and downs may not be.

I think this guy is an animal, but I don't see him running 2:40 by himself (strange as that sounds).

"This year, at ages 65 and 43, Dick and Rick finished

their 24th Boston

Marathon, in 5,083rd place out of more than 20,000

starters. Their

best time'? Two hours, 40 minutes in 1992--only 35

minutes off the

world record, which, in case you don't keep track of

these things,

happens to be held by a guy who was not pushing

another man in a

wheelchair at the time."

This was the quote that lead me to believe that their marathon p.r. came at Boston. It is somewhat ambiguous, but another poster made mention of the time at the '92 Boston, so I assume that's where it came from.

Hoyts start early with the wheelchairs? But are timed with the runners?

Now that I am home from work and can consult the actual results, I will correct some of what I said above. I passed the Hoyts in 93, not 92. In the Boston newspaper, Richard Hoyt is one place behind me in 2:41:06. In the official results book, Richard Hoyt is one place behind me in the results, but they did add the 15 minutes to his time for 2:56:06.

The official results book of 1992 has Richard Hoyt in the wheelchair division finishing in 3:12:22, but the Boston newspaper had him listed at 2:57:19.

My guess is that the article listed the 93 time from the newspaper and rounded down liberally.

Apollo wrote:

The 2:40 must be good for a sub 2:30 if he's running solo.

only 10min slowdown when pushing over 100lbs for 26mi? Yeah right...at least 20min. Also, take off a bunch of time for being 45yrs old and for having just started running. He could have potentially been world class, or at least national class

midwaste wrote:

Also consider where the p.r. was run (at Boston), lots of downhill there, but the guy doesn't take the pounding on the quads he would if he were running upright.

The PR was at Marine Corps, not Boston

hmm, I found a 2:45 at marine corps

"The Hoyts continued to do it differently, though, the only way they knew how. Distances increased until, in 1981, they ran the Boston Marathon. Though entered unofficially, they ran the course in 3:11, a time that put them in the top 25 percent of the field. Denied a number the next year, they ran again, only faster. In November 1982, they qualified officially with a time of 2:45 at the Marine Corps Marathon. They have done Boston ever since as registered runners, and the crowds look for them now and cheer heartily."

I can't find anything that mentions where they ran 2:40:47, only that they did.

I also thought it was odd that their half marathon p.r. is a slower pace than their marathon p.r. Kind of like being a 5 minute miler with an 800 best of 2:40.

good times wrote:

If you have a few minutes, watch this video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ryCTIigaloQ&mode=related&search=

Word of caution...if you're at work, close the door unless you're comfortable with your co-workers seeing you dry your eyes at your desk.

It's a good montage, but would have been better without that lame-ass christian song.

Agreed.

And again, letsrun proves to be a ton of assholes debating something this guy does solely out of fatherly love for his son

Equally hard is swimming the swim leg of an Ironman swim while towing his kid in a friggin' raft. That to me is amazingly studly...

I'm sure he could run a marathon faster if he wasn't pushing his son but the benefits aero bars probably do mean he isn't slowed down as much as you would expect at first. Obviously this is still something amazing he has done.

While the wheelchair might give some advantage on the downhills or by taking the pounding off the legs or whatnot, I'm pretty sure the 110lbs in the wheelchair does not give an advantage.