are abs really worth it??? do they do anything!?

unfortunately your legs have to carry your frickin tummy around. and it's a lot easier to do so if your abs (and other parts of your upper body) can maintain good running "form" - for lack of a better term. i always thought runners who did abs spent more time than necessary on it. you don't need a six pack, as you point out. 50 or 60 reps of various core exercises each day is probably sufficient for most.

Agreed. 10 minutes of core work is sufficient if you make sure they're 10 good, hard minutes.

i'm gonna be a senior too and my squad does core work and welift twice a week. From what i understand bulking up as a runner is a bad idea but in lifting and core the goal is to be as lean as possible, easier to carry your self around, maintain form, etc. Also later in the highschool competitive year i think working body parts other than the legs becomes more important when we step on the track and the longest distance we run is the 3200m which is really more mid distance.

I'd rather spend 10 more minutes running. Ryan Wilson said on another thread that Kim McDonald, who managed some of the best runners ever, once said, "If you have enough energy to lift weights, you probably aren't doing enough mileage."

well go do your junk miles. the ethiopians seem to think 30-60min of a day of this stuff works.

i rather doubt kim said that and, if he did, it's being taken out of context.

i think even ten minutes of abs is more than you need to do.

clockwork orange wrote:

well go do your junk miles. the ethiopians seem to think 30-60min of a day of this stuff works.

They're not 'junk' miles. Over time, these miles add up to further development of the aerobic system. I would think Kim McDonald knows what he's talking about. Furthermore, I don't recall the Kenyans doing ab work in Train Hard, Win Easy the Kenyan Way, but I do recall them running, eating, and sleeping A LOT.

not everything "kenyans" do ended up in that book. there are plenty of examples of core work, plyometrics, drills, etc. being done by kenyan runners. i'm sure some don't do them but, sheesh, you act like train hard, win easy is some sort of bible. if you want examples, check what the likes of evans rutto and thomas nyariki do.

http://www.greatrun.org/runners_services/training/features/kenyansecrets.asp

Scientifically speaking, there has been very little done on how much the abs and "core" do during running. I have a study going on right now where I am studying the muscle activation of some of these muscles during 5K intensity running, and will know in the coming month or two how these muscle fatigue during hard running. I can say already that they are certainly active during running (as they also may assist in breathing at high intensities).

I believe there has been one recent study which examined the effects of stability ball core training on running performance, which found no significant improvements... However, I am not familiar with all the results off the top of my head. I am also aware of an unpublished cycling study which found an abdominal training program did not improve cycling performance.

That said, these studies may be limited in certain aspects, such as what the training was, how performance was measured, the duration of the study, etc., etc., etc. One type of core stability training truly may be effective whereas another type may not be - there needs to be more science or maybe even mainstream anecdote before we really know.

Also, "core" training is very loosely defined. Some people consider crunches a core exercise, since it hits your rectus abdominus, whereas others do not consider one as it is not a "functional" movement. There are many different types of "core" exercises which are done in different positions which definitely seem more functional than crunches, and also hit other "core" muscles besides just a few abdominal ones. I think some of them make sense and can increase your stability while on the ground, and theoretically improve the way you transfer momentum throughout your body during running... but it hasn't been scientifically proven as far as I am aware, as of yet.

Hope that helps a little...

Tell you what: spend five minutes less each day on letsrun, and use that time for doing abs. That way you're not losing any running time...

If you're "putting in miles" (distance running at moderate speeds), you will tend to strengthen your lower back. If you do not balance that by working your abs, you are at rist for eventually developing lordosis (sp?)--potentially causing sciatica (which affected, among others, Edelen and Prefontaine).

If you don’t think your abs do much when you run, try building up to 110-120 MPW and see how your abs feel.

Sometimes, on a morning run after a day of doubles where my mileage may have been 20+, I can feel the soreness in my abs more than my legs.

Lifting your leg off the ground requires recruitment of muscle fibers in your abdominals.

Spend a few minutes and keep your systems (core, and legs) equally strong.

maybe we should ask Deena K about her 2 hours a day in the gym in her prep for Athens

running is a whole body effort. ever try running without swinging your arms? running is hardly "just in your legs"

think about the car metaphor: your heart and lungs are the engine, your legs are the wheels, your core is the transmission. you can't run well if the tranny is slipping.

when i started doing core work many years ago, the first place i noticed a difference was on hills. with no other change in my workouts, i became a better hill runner after doing core work

Watch TV at all times between training except when eating or reading.

Take a nap if there is nothing on TV.

Like Dr. S has stated, there are very few if any studies, that are done properly, that show that core work does or doesn't help.

People have used examples of their own personal obeservations of others to justify their thoughts on the matter. I will now add my own observations and thoughts.

I will not do something because so and so did this and look at how good they ran. There are just as many people who have not done what that person has done and had similar results. So was it the talent of those runners that allowed them to do what they did without ab work, were they actually under-achieving for their talent levels? Who knows, because until more quality research people will be using speculation and some educated guesses as to what and what not to do with regard to core work.

I run around 110 - 120 a week and I never feel my abs fatigued after a run. Maybe from all my years of playing basketball I built up a great core area due to pump fakes, semi-explosive jumps, dribbling and such, maybe not.

I have always wondered about the benifits of ab/core work like you currently are. I strongly believe in maximizing time and efforts into areas that will benifit my running and life. I have come to the conclusion that like others have mentioned on this thread, if you spend 5 - 10 minutes on core a couple times a week, you will be wasting little time with the slight possibility of gaining some injury prevention. The time put in is so little that if nothing comes from it, you hardly wasted any time.

Come on, even if having great abs doesn't help, they make you look like a stud! I have great abs and I don't do much for them. I alternate between leg lifts, crunches, incline crunches, and side crunches. 50 LL, 100 crunches, 50 incline, or 50 (on each side) side crunches. Do any of those every day for a while and you'll get good abs, assuming you don't have a big belly or something. It takes me about 5 minutes a day.

I've strained/pulled some muscles in my abdomen twice during races because my abs weren't strong enough. It is really painful. Weight lifting might be overrated for boys/men but I think it is very useful for women.

First of all, I have trained with a few groups of Africans over the years, and while they don't always hit the weights, they spend a good deal of time on core strength.

For the most part, Core work helps reduce injury. Same goes for lifting. You shouldn't be trying to bench a new record, you should be strengthening ares that have the potential to cause injury if they become too weak.

Anyone who claims they would rather spend 10 more minutes running is missing the point. It isn't about one being better than the other, it is about the synergy.

At one time, this might have been true, but the overwhelming majority of kids simply do not have the same overall fitness level that kids had 20 - 30 years ago. Back then in the "good ol' days, there was really only TV ... in some places you could only get 3 channels. Now there are 500 channels of crap, the Internet, Xbox, Nintendo, etc and no real PE class. Not that this is any of today's kids fault, it is just reality. I'd say that some core and weight work, especially core work certainly wouldn't hurt the vast majority.

TheRunZone.com wrote:

If you don’t think your abs do much when you run, try building up to 110-120 MPW and see how your abs feel.

This is along the lines I was thinking of. If you run far enough, you're working your postural muscles and also developing your aerobic system. More bang for the buck! Hill running, barefoot running, and bounding-- all good for strenghthening.