Malmo's Log

you don't do the high mileage DURING the racing season-- isn't this common sense???

I am talking about yearly averages and his consistent mileage throughout the year. Dropping to 50 in the racing season would not be come on here and say, "he did low mileage." Get real, if you actually read through the log, I believe his best season, he did ~75 avg for fall and winter, and that was his high mileage. But you will note, after his mileage got ridiculous, (117 weekly avg for 6 months) he showed no improvement.

What's your point? In college I was a 1500/steeplechaser. I put in the miles in the pre season like you should. You ride the short bus to school or something?

My best running certainly was always after a period of base building. My AR in the steeple was the direct result of those 120-140 weeks during XC, being that I had a stress fracture in March which prevented me from racing the 'chase until May30.

Finally, learn how to read training logs. Average mileage means nothing, it's skewed by those zero rest weeks.

Average means nothing, huh? (Riiiight)

That's right. Average means nothing. Super compensation, the kind typically associated with crash training, only works with rest weeks. You don't get the compensation running the same volume or intensity every week. Looking at averages is taking the training out of context. Although I guess it supports the axe you have to grind with George.

Of course it means nothing. You have to take into account the different seasons (who's gonna' run 140mpw while racing 1500's every week?)

"Consistent high mileage will MAXIMIZE the speed you do have and is the essential component for distance running success."

-Bob Hodge

"We ran twice a day, sometimes three times. Twenty miles a day, sometimes more. There were a couple of 170-mile weeks... All we did was run - run, eat, and sleep."

-Frank Shorter detailing his training prior to the 1972 Olympics where he won the gold medal in the marathon

"When I wake up I think about running, I'm always in a hurry to go. Running is like a hobby to me. It's not boring. I train twice a day, 13 times a week, an average of 30km a day. At the moment it's more - 35km a day (152 miles/week)."

-Haile Gebrselassie, talking about his London Marathon preparation

Tons of miles - even laughably slow ones - REALLY DO help your running. Many would-be runners in the U.S.A. dearly want to believe there are "courses for horses". Meanwhile, the Japanese marathoners follow ONE course: 250K+ weeks including super-slow "time on their feet" easy runs, very focused hard days, and sessions like 30K progression runs. And ... surprise! ... they have plenty more horses than we do. I checked a really deep world list a couple of years ago and saw that Japan had about NINETY (!) men under 29:00 for 10,000m. What the devil is up with the U.S. to not be able to match that? Now, this year IS one of our best ever at the 10. We've got 6 guys under 28:00 and 33 under 29:00, so we're doing much better than we were several years ago. But COME ON, Eileen! Our depth is still pitiful compared to the Japanese, and it's because most of us are still HAMMERING ourselves to the ground with intense anaerobic interval "training" in HS and college as opposed to patiently developing aerobic capacity by running more and more miles at relaxed to medium speeds. "But wait a minute, Kell-Dog, ..." I hear somebody say, "... these Japanese marathoners WERE hammering on their 2,000m repeats." True, but they're now training for races that are less than 2 months away, so this is a good time to push the pace envelope. Plus, what we the readers of this message board DON'T see is the training which LED UP to this current training. There was undoubtedly mega-amounts of that super-slow shuffling which has been just as important as the more directed efforts in the making of these elite marathoners. This is reminiscent of Frank Shorter's training, in which there was TONS of mileage with EXTREMELY slow easy days. Can't do 150 miles per week and keep it at your "normal" 6:40 pace? Then go 8:00 pace on days when you need to. Or why not 9:00 pace, at least at the beginning of a run? Think it won't do you any good? Think again. Some of the best runners in the world start at a WALKING pace and barely get any faster during many of their recovery runs. Yes, you need some scheduled faster running, and you can occasionally run hard spontaneously, but you MUST recover from that fast running and this recovery running often needs to be pretty durn SLOW if you're running very high mileage.

-John Kellogg

nice stuff dka!

four-minute-mile wrote:

Average means nothing, huh? (Riiiight)

That's right kid, AVERAGE means nothing. You analytical skills are that of a rank amateur. You'd gain more perspective and be more engaged if you'd look at training logs in terms of their entire context. MEDIAN mileage would be more telling, and MEDIAN daily mileage even better.

Besides, when have I ever been a high mileage advocate? Never been a low mileage or medium mileage advocate either. I've always been a right mileage advocate. Ever hear me say to get out there and give an honest effort and find your own personal sweet spot? Sound familiar at all? I'll give you one thousand dollars when you show me otherwise.

Here, I'll give you the full context of my high school and college training. I don't know, you may be smarter than me, but it sure doesn't look contradictory to me.

HS Senior XC

8/5 79

8/12 81

8/19 107

8/26 59

9/2 23

9/9 33

9/16 64

9/23 110

9/30 108 3 mile XC 16:34

10/7 104 2.75 XC 13:51

10/14 106 3 mi XC 16:18 3 mi XC 16:25

10/21 86 3 mile 15:54 2.5 mile 12:39

10/28 87 3 miles 15:18

11/4 79 2.7 mile XC 13:56

11/11 72 2.5 mile XC 12:55

11/18 10

HS Senior Track:

2/17 75

2/24 86

3/3 99

3/10 103

3/17 87

3/24 109

3/31 79 1 mile 4:23.5

4/7 95 2 mile 9:25.1 2 mile 9:17.1

4/14 76 2 mile 9:27.1 1 mile 4:21

4/21 85 2 mile 9:18.2

4/28 86 1 mile 4:17.9

5/5 100 1 mile 4:24.0

5/12 91 2 mile 9:30.6

5/19 82 2 mile 9:10.2

5/26 76

6/2 47 2 mile 9:15.0

6/9 41 1 mile 4:16.4

6/16 0

College Junior XC:

8/30 0

9/6 10

9/13 76

9/20 91

9/27 86 5 mile XC 26:33

10/4 106

10/11 96 5 mile XC 24:47

10/18 108 5 mile XC 25:10

10/25 116 5.5 mile XC 28:28

11/1 95 5 miles XC 25:17

11/8 129 10,000m XC 30:41

11/15 117

11/22 101 6 mile XC 30:07

11/29 80 6 mile XC 29:14

12/6 46

12/13 88

12/20 90

College Junior Track:

1/17 77 2 miles 8:49.0

1/24 81 1 mile 4:04.1

1/31 92 2 mile 9:03 1 mile 4:07.6

2/7 83 2 mile 8:48.8

2/14 97

2/21 77 1 mile 4:16 2 mile 8:50.0

2/28 70 1 mile 4:04.2

3/6 88 880 1:54.0 880 1:55.4

3/13 103 1 mile 4:09.3

3/20 71

3/27 122

4/3 99 1 mile 4:03.6 5000 13:53.2

4/10 105 1 mile 4:09.7 1 mile 4:15

4/17 94 1 mile 4:08.6

4/24 85 SC 8:34.4 PR

5/1 90 1500 3:48.0 5000 14:12.1

5/8 84 SC 8:31.7 PR

5/15 68 SC 8:44.2

5/22 102

5/29 78 SC 8:38.3 1500 3:47.2

6/5 66 SC 8:30.33 PR

6/12 90

6/19 75

Senior XC

8/14 72

8/21 73

8/28 78

9/4 52

9/11 110

9/18 116

9/25 116 5 mile XC 24:21.6

10/2 130 5 mile XC 24:39.2 CR

10/9 125 6 mile XC 29:01 CR

10/16 145 5 mile XC 24:01

10/23 130 5 mile XC 23:54.7 CR

10/30 103 5 mile XC 24:19 CR

11/6 131 5 mile XC 24:03

11/13 130

11/20 82 6 mile XC 29:34 CR

11/27 77 10k XC 29:07

12/4 35

12/11 81

12/18 64

12/25 80

Senior Track:

1/1 104

1/8 97

1/15 94 2 mile 8:39.8

1/22 89 1 mile 4:06.7

1/29 76 2 mile 8:43.8

2/5 95

2/12 89 1 mile 4:02.7

2/19 52

2/26 0

3/5 81

3/12 80 1 mile 4:05.4, 1 mile 4:04.8

3/19 120

3/26 62 stress fracture

4/2 42

4/9 57

4/16 77 1 mile 4:09.1

4/23 94 1 mile 4:16.0

4/30 60 1500 3:47.7

5/7 90 1500 3:42.2

5/14 96 3 mile 13:28.0

5/21 85 1500 3:46.6

5/28 89 SC 8:48.6, 1500 3:43.7

6/4 81 5000 14:03

6/11 87 SC 8:22.5 (AR)

6/18 84

6/25 66 SC 8:28.4, SC 8:36.1

7/2 61 SC 8:29.5

7/9 31

7/16 75

7/23 64

7/30 108

8/6 70

8/13 87 1 mile 4:03.8

8/20 66 SC 8:37.0

8/27 64 1 mile 4:00.5

9/3 78 SC 8:25.2

9/10 79 3000 7:54.0

1978:

3/4 91

3/11 135

3/18 131

3/25 134 10 mile 48:55

4/1 126 10k 29:28

4/8 118

4/15 112

4/22 106 20k 62:51

4/29 99

5/6 92 5000 14:05

5/13 101

5/20 76 SC 8:32.1

5/27 96 1500 3:45.8 3000 8:05 (30 min rest)

6/3 80

6/10 86 SC 8:30.4

6/17 64 1500 3:44.9

6/24 86 3000 7:59.8

7/1 84 SC 8:26.8

7/8 66 SC 8:21.72, 1500 3:40.21

7/15 75 SC 8:40.9

7/22 85

7/29 66 SC 8:26.56

8/5 71 3000 7:57.7, 1500 3:40.8

8/12 58 1500 3:43.7 800 1:54.0

Get back out there and chase those windmills of yours. Good luck.

hey, malmo,

hadn't looked at this in a while...one thing i noticed and wanted to ask you:

on some of your high-mileage weeks (from the 1985 season on the excel file, thanks for posting that!), i noticed that you often took short (4-8miles) or OFF days, even in many weeks in the 120-145mpw range.

my question is: was the by design, to give yourself a day off, or just from listening to you body (typically in the log, you mention soreness/illness, but i wanted to ask you rather than just guess)?

thanks for any info!

greg

That's right, listen to you body, it will tell you everything you need to know.

Ok..first, I didn't say not high mileage but I don't know about mega mileage. And I liked your mileage numbers in most cases. That was my point. It seems that consistent 80-100 is what I believe to be the key. I just don't see any major improvement in the years where you went from 80-100 to up to 120 (but maybe average close to the same)

Average does mean a low. 920 miles in 10 weeks will probably be better than 800 in 10 weeks with a few 110 weeks. Just my opinion though.

Whenever I load this log, MS Excel 2000 gives me an "error loading Sheet 39111111111111111111" or some message like that. Anyone else have this problem?

I can't load it either.

I ran the roads and marathon after college, and I was running much better than in college. Unfortunetly for me, in 1981, while in the best shape of my life, I stepped in a hole while training for World XC and severly injured my plantar fascia, which all but eliminated any return to the track.

Differing opinions are fine, the best ones will stand on their own merits. Just don't ever attempt to speak for me, please.

Now get out on the roads and do something dammit!

That Excel spreadsheet was done many years ago on an early version of Excel. When I clicked on your link, it loaded just fine. But I have Office XP, which repairs all of the macros when opened.

Don't ask me to buy Excel XP for you. I'm already buying a book and a pair of shoes for you knuckleheads!

A bit of malmo, summer 1982:

June 27 - July 3-1982 Week = 116.5

6/27 S - PM 17.5 moderate over hilly course

6/28 M - AM 4.5 moderate PM 12 moderate

6/29 T - AM 7 slow PM 4 very slow (very humid can't breathe)

6/30 W - AM 6 easy PM 10 moderate

7/01 T - AM 5 easy PM 3 warmup, 3x 1 mile w/ 400 jog( 4:34,4:33,4:30) 4x400 (61,61,61,59) 4 warmdown

7/02 F - AM 8.5 moderate PM 3.5 warmup, 10 x heartbreak hill (1:39, last one 1:33), 3.5 warmdown

7/03 S - PM 16 moderate

-------------------------------------

July 4 - July 10 Week = 69

7/4 S - AM 14 slow feel very ill

7/5 M - Flu

7/6 T - Flu PM 8.5 slow

7/7 W - Flu PM 11.5 slow

7/8 T - Flu PM 10 slow

7/9 F - Flu PM 9.5 easy

7/10 S - AM 4 moderate PM 3 warmup, 8x400 (62.1) w/200 jog, 3 warmdown

---------------------------------------

July 11 - July 17 Week = 124

7/11 S - PM 20 moderate

7/12 M - AM 9 moderate PM 13.5 fartlek (10 min easy, 10 min hard)

7/13 T - AM 4 moderate-hard PM 3 warmup, 6x800 (2:10,2:10,2:10,2:10,2:10,2:06) w 400 jog, 4 warmdown

7/14 W - AM 10 easy PM 17 moderate (last 5 hard)

7/15 T - AM 4 easy PM 10.5 easy

7/16 F - PM 13.5 easy

7/17 S - AM 4 slow PM 6.5 slow

----------------------------------------

July 18 - July 24 Week = 128

7/18 S - Brownsville 5 miler, 2 warmup, 5 mile race in 24:12(1st), 5 warmdown

7/19 M - AM 15 easy PM 8.5 easy

7/20 T - PM 17 easy

7/21 W - AM 10 moderate AM 11 fartlek (5:00 hard, 5:00 easy)

7/22 T - AM 8 easy PM 4 warmup, 12x200 (28-28.5) w 200 jog, 3 warmdown

7/23 F - AM 4 easy PM 14 moderate

7/24 S - AM 18.5 moderate

--------------------------------------

July 25 - July 31 Week = 133

7/25 S - AM 8 slow PM 5 slow

7/26 M - PM Nike Holliston 5.2 mile, 2.5 warmup, 5.2 mile race in 25:26 (4th), 6.5 warmdown

7/27 T - AM 8.5 moderate PM 4 warmup, 2x200(28.5), 2x300(45.2,45.2), 1x400(59.1), 2x300(45.2,44.3), 2x200(28.5), 2 warmdown

7/28 W - AM 9.5 moderate PM 14.5 moderate

7/29 T - AM 9.5 moderate PM 4 warmup, 10x400(61.3) w/200 jog, 4 warmdown

7/30 F - AM 9 moderate PM 11 moderate

7/31 S - AM 11 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

-------------------------------------

August 1 - August 7 Week = 111 miles

8/1 S - PM 3 warmup, 2 miles in 8:53.1 (in NB 990s), 1.5 warmdown

8/2 M - AM 10 moderate PM 11 hard (1:01:30)

8/3 T - AM 4 easy PM 3 warmup, 300(44.1), 2x800(2:00.4,1:59.8), 400(57.1), 300(42.0), 4 warmdown

8/4 W - AM 11 easy PM 11 easy

8/5 T - AM 8.5 easy PM 10 moderate

8/6 F - PM 14.5 moderate

8/7 S - AM 6 slow PM 5 easy

-------------------------------------

August 8 - August 14 Week = 93 miles

8/8 S - AM 2 easy PM Riverside 5 mile, 3 warmup, 5 mile race in 23:11 (4th), 5 mile warmdown

8/9 M - PM Sore throat/fever 13 moderate

8/10 T - AM Sore throat/fever 4 moderate PM 6 easy

8/11 W - AM 4 easy PM 14 easy

8/12 T - AM 8.5 easy PM 8.5 easy

8/13 F - AM 4 easy PM 6 easy

8/14 S - Am 4 easy PM 6 easy

------------------------------------

August 15 - August 21 Week = 142 miles

8/15 S - AM Falmouth Road Race 3 warmup, 7.1 mile race in 33:10 (8th), 4 warmdown

8/16 M - AM 10 moderate PM 10 moderate

8/17 T - AM 10 moderate PM 13 easy

8/18 W - AM 4 moderate PM 4 warmup, 1200(3:17), 4x800(2:09,2:09,2:09.2:07), 1200(3:12), 4 warmdown

8/19 T - AM 10 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

8/20 F - AM 8.5 moderate PM 3.5 warmup, 8 x Chestnet Hill (2:00,2:00,2:00,2:01,2:04,2:02,2:02,2:00)

8/21 S - AM 13 moderate PM 10 moderate

-------------------------------------

August 22 - August 28 Week = 141 miles

8/22 S - PM 21 miles moderate

8/23 M - AM 10.5 moderate-fast PM 4 warmup, 3x400-400-800 (62,62,2:07.1,60.4,61.1,2:07.0,60.1,60.1,2:08.4) w/200-200-400 jog, 4 warmdown

8/24 T - PM 20 moderate

8/25 W - AM 11 moderate PM 11.5 moderate-fast

8/26 T - AM 12 hard PM 11 moderate

8/27 F - AM 6 moderate PM 8.5 easy legs are shot!

8/28 S - PM 17 easy

----------------------------------------

August 29 - September 4 Week = 103 miles

8/29 S - PM 4 warmup, 10 x Chestnut Hill (69-71), 5 warmdown

8/30 M - AM 4 easy PM 11 slow

8/31 T - AM 4 easy PM 4 warmup, 8x800(2:10) w/400jog, 4 easy

9/1 W - PM 13 moderate

9/2 T - AM 4 easy PM 4 warmup, 1 mile (4:16.1),8x200(27.7) w/ 200 jog, 4 warmdown

9/3 F - AM 4 easy PM 12 easy

9/4 S - AM 4 easy PM 9 easy

----------------------------------------

September 5 - September 11 Week = 128 miles

9/5 S -AM 7 slow PM 4 slow

9/6 M -AM New Haven 20k, 3 warmup, 20k race in 59:42(3rd), 4 warmdown

9/7 T -PM 15 easy

9/8 W -AM 10 easy PM 11 easy

9/9 T -AM 7 easy PM 4 warmup, 4 x1200(3:19,3:16,3:15,3:09) very easy! w/ 400 jog, 4 warmdown

9/10 F - PM 22 easy

9/11 S - AM 9 easy PM 11 moderate

-----------------------------------------

September 12 - September 18 Week = 102 miles

9/12 S - PM 3.5 warmup, 8 x heartbreak hill (1:36,1:35,1:35,1:35,1:35,1:35,1:37,1:36), 3.5 easy

9/13 M - AM 4 hard (21:14) PM 10 moderate (59:30)

9/14 T - AM 4 easy PM 12.5 moderate

9/15 W - AM 7 easy PM 4 warmup, 2 x 1mile (4:16.4,4:15.8) w 2:30 jog, 4 warmdown

9/16 T - AM 8.5 moderate PM 12 easy

9/17 F - AM 4.5 easy PM 10.5 easy

9/18 S - PM 6 slow, very humid, can't breathe!

--------------------------------------------

September 19 - September 25 Week = 108 miles

9/19 S - AM Philly Distance Run, 2.5 warmup, 13.1 race in 1:01:43(AR 2nd) Winner Mike Musioki 1:01:35(WR), 2.5 warmdown

9/20 M - PM 17.5 easy

9/21 T - AM 9.5 easy PM 13 easy

9/22 W - PM 8.5 easy

9/23 T - AM 5.5 easy PM 7.5 easy

9/24 F - AM 7 slow PM 4 slow

9/25 S - AM Virginia Ten Mile 2 warmup, 10 mile race in 48:35(6th), 5 warmdown

---------------------------------------------

September 26 - October 2 Week = 94 miles

9/26 S - PM 11 easy

9/27 M - PM 12 moderate

9/28 T - AM 4 hard (22:40) PM 4 warmup, 10x400(59,59,61,59,61,60,61,60,60,59) w/200jog, 4 warmdown

9/29 W - AM 10 easy PM 9.5 slow

9/30 T - AM 4 easy PM 9 moderate

10/1 F - AM 5 easy PM 8.5 easy

10/2 S - AM 4 easy PM 5 easy

-----------------------------------------

October 3 - October 9 Week = 120 miles

10/3 S - AM Freedom Trail, 3 warmup, 8 mile race in 37:17 (1st...4:33,9:06,13:40,no mercy...) 4 warmdown

10/4 M - PM 18 easy

10/5 T - AM 6.5 easy PM 13 miles fartlek (10:00 hard, 10:00 easy)

10/6 W - AM 5.5 hard PM 14 moderate

10/7 T - AM 5.5 moderate-hard PM 14.5 moderate

10/8 F - AM 9 moderate PM 12.5 moderate

10/9 S - AM 7 easy

----------------------------------------

October 10 - October 16 Week = 134 miles

10/10 S - PM 30 moderate (3:03:00)

10/11 M - PM 12.5 miles fartlek (5:00 hard, 5:00 easy)

10/12 T - AM 10 easy PM 10 easy

10/13 W - AM 7.5 moderate PM 12 moderate

10/14 T - AM 5.5 moderate-hard PM 3 warmup,2 mile (8:55.5),800(2:09.7),4x400(62.7,62.3,60.8,59.7),6.5 warmdown

10/15 F - AM 10 slow PM 6.5 easy

10/16 S - AM University City Ten Miler, 2 warmup, 10 mile race in 49:02(1st), 4 warmdown

---------------------------------------

October 17 - October 23 Week = 79 miles

10/17 S - PM 11.5 easy

10/18 M - AM 5.5 slow PM 9 easy

10/19 T - PM 4 warmup, 12x400(64,64,64,64,64,64,64,64,62,61,60,60), 5.5 warmdown

10/20 W - AM 9 easy PM 6.5 easy

10/21 T - AM 7 slow PM 9.5 slow

10/22 F - PM 7 easy

10/23 S - rest

---------------------------------------

October 24 - October 30 Week = 27 miles

10/24 S - AM NYC Marathon, 1 warmup, marathon in 2:13:29(7th)

" I just don't see any major improvement in the years where you went from 80-100 to up to 120 "

Improvement is still improvement. At that stage of his career he's not going to to knock minutes off his marathon pr in one race. Degree of improvement is not linear, it is a curve. You improve greatly at first but improvement becomes smaller and smaller over time as you get closer to your highest potential. The closer you get to your highest potential the more training you have to do to get the smallest of gains...but they are still gains.

Alan

Thanks for posting that Hodgie-san.