How does Jackson Spencer rank all time?

*meant to say that
"...better training, nutrition, and of course shoes TIMES have greatly improved."
Was trying to respect previous eras

Absolutely not GOAT, top 10, or Nico status.

Fantastic runner and senior season though.

I will say, that NxN run by Nico was one of the most impressive races I've ever seen. Crazy how he solo'd that.

We'll just let season play out to see. Amazingly, despite his results he has not really captured the imagination of fans. A special U20 run in Florida might boost that.

On pure merit, his times indicate an all time season. Beating the Fernandez mark at Woodward and winning NXN are pretty good.

Nico Young was surfing on the big Newbury Park story, then won alongside Tuohy at NXN and followed shortly thereafter with a great indoor track run in NYC. Spencer is right with Nico on time.

Nothing here is tearing you apart. However, 2 things that can’t be compared:

1. times. from course to course, year to year, decade to decade, time is irrelevant. I am amazed to Coaches and Runners at the high school level comparing times across the United States. This makes zero sense. Then of course, there is the shoe issue.

2. It seems that a lot of current runners are just looking at the greats in the last decade. I think there was a guy in rich Kimball and Tom Hunt back in the 70s that eitherr won or was second place at the world junior cross country championships well before there was Nike nationals or even the footlocker. I believe Craig, Virgin, Mark, Davis, Reuben Reina, and a whole list of others are not being thought of because they were running before most of the readers here were born.

I would say a good result at world junior cross-country championships holds more weight than Nike Cross, etc.

No, that does not diminish Jackson’s season. I’m sure he would not even entertain the thought of being one of the all-time greats.

None of this was antagonistic, just to let you know!

Kimball won World Jr XC at age 17:

runnerspace.com

DyeStat.com - News - Backstage With Untold Cross Country History: 50 Years Since Richard Kimball's World Junior Gold (Part 1)

California Teen Raced to Breakthroughs That Paced a Golden AgeBy Marc BloomPart One of Two The year was 1974. Running was a big deal in the United States. Marathons were taking off, high school boys were breaking nine minutes...

Open link

That 1970s decade of high school runners could keep up with the best of them.

Get a lineup of Virgin, Hulst, Nelson, Hunt, Kimball, Serna, Chapa, and it’s a tough crew to match.

Only the 2000s decade could match them, maybe.

5th best HS utah runner of all-time behind:

1. Casey Clinger

2. Aiden Troutner

3. Danny Simmons

4. Jojo Jourdon

Others like Rohatinsky, Saarel, Mantz are in the conversation, but above had more success in HS.

Not sure if anyone else picked up on it, but Hunt (and myself) were on site yesterday when Spencer won. Hunt seemed impressed

It is true that Rich Kimball (1974), Eric Hulst (1976), and Thom Hunt (1977) all won World Junior XC championships. However, it was a little easier to win in the 70s because the rise of Ethiopia and Kenya in the early 80s as world distance powers hadn't happened yet. They were all great champions, despite this, but the competition wasn't as strong. I would argue, Dathan Ritzenhein's bronze medal in 2001 behind Kenenisa Bekele at World Juniors is the greatest US high school XC performance of all-time when you consider the strength of the field he faced. Jackson is good, but he's nowhere near that level of international competitiveness.

I’d love to hear the argument for Troutner over any of those guys

Obviously Simmons and Jourdon have some great track times. XC only, I think Spencer is better than all of them. Clinger gets points for two titles, but Hunter was the top dog in 2015

You mentioned Reuben Reina, but how much of his legacy is because of a time? This is a genuine question, not some kind of gotcha, I don’t know much about him besides the footlocker course record on a course that was clearly much more favorable than the one they use today

Walk me through your logic. I was going to focus on a similar question, but focusing on BYU recruits, which would add in at least Mantz (rank him as a recruit before NCAA success), Vause, and Kitchen. Among other questions, why is Troutner above Simmons and Jourdon?

I would say if you take 14:16 at face value, he could be #2. German and Leo Young are probably two of the best guys to never win a title, so being 8-9 seconds faster than them with the title would surely put him in the inner circle. But i’m pretty sure woodward park has been running a lot faster in the last 2-3 years.

With that context, probably top 20? After the first few it gets difficult to differentiate. Since 2010, I’d put him among Young, Ches, LV, Fisher, Hunter, Sahlman, and Clinger (with those guys maybe in that order?) So at worst 8th in the last 15 years, maybe better, and with two more races still to go.

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Nico Young is an interesting comparison. Obviously Nico had a very dominant NXN, which makes a lot of people, myself included, think very highly of him. But his and Spencer’s seasons were pretty similar. They were basically both only challenged by one guy all year. It’s just that Caden Leonard ran at NXN and Leo Daschbach didn’t. Even though Spencer only won by 3 seconds at regionals, it was a very controlled effort. At the order of his coach, he waited to make his move compared to Nico who kinda ran from the gun every time, and it was really never in doubt

I haven’t watched Spencer run much, but it seems like he could and would race with a sit and kick style confident in his closing speed, making times tougher to compare.

I believe the Irish runner obscured by Rich in this picture is John Treacy. Treacy was young enough to run one more U-20 races medaling in that as well. Add in two senior world XC titles in his future and an Olympic Silver medal in the marathon. No Africans in that Monza race but certainly some great competition.

Has he? There were two guys within 2.x seconds of him yesterday. The greatest ones in any era destroy their competition. Look what Ritz did to Webb and Hall at 2000 Foot Locker.

Though he was one year removed from graduating from Bonneville High School in Washington Terrace, Utah, it is interesting to note that as a freshman at BYU, Ed Eyestone earned a bronze medal at the 1980 World Junior XC champs. That's arguably the best achievement by a Utah junior on the world XC stage.

QFE. The recency bias in this thread is astounding. Spencer isn’t even in the same conversation as Ritz IMO.