It's an old podcast from February but there were a lot of interesting nuggets of information
Like his training mostly consists of threshold, and at the time of recording, he ran 80 - 90 km a week, with 4 HOURS of cross training on the elliptical at threshold HR. It just got me thinking, with people like Keely, Valby, Alex Yee (especially him since he's run 13:13 and 2:11 on triathlon training) that do a ton of cross training and are still very good, are we pure runners just overtraining?
It's an old podcast from February but there were a lot of interesting nuggets of information
Like his training mostly consists of threshold, and at the time of recording, he ran 80 - 90 km a week, with 4 HOURS of cross training on the elliptical at threshold HR. It just got me thinking, with people like Keely, Valby, Alex Yee (especially him since he's run 13:13 and 2:11 on triathlon training) that do a ton of cross training and are still very good, are we pure runners just overtraining?
You’re asking if pure runners are “just overtraining” but talking about a guy that does 4 HOURS of elliptical at threshold on top of his running training?
You’re asking if pure runners are “just overtraining” but talking about a guy that does 4 HOURS of elliptical at threshold on top of his running training?
Like 5 hours of running + 4 hours of elliptical is a decent training load. I dont think he is actually doing his elliptical at XT effort at threshold. It sounds like he is using his running HR but elliptical rates are higher because of he is using his arms. Probably right around AeT.
But yeah if you have a way to XT, it is an easy way to up your volume. At elite levels it might not help as the elite guys can run 10 hours/week but if you can only run like 5, you are going to be better if you pick up another 4 of XT. But you need a special kid/situation where you can do that much work. It sounds easy on paper. Real world execution can get hard
I mean overtraining in the sense that he's running 5 hours and like 50 miles a week, with 4 extra hours of threshold intensity on the elliptical without extra fatigue, while a pure runner would probably have to run over 80 miles a week to have the same stimulus with much more muscular damage
hmm. lots of threshold, lots of crosstraining... sounds like he took some inspiration from Nils van der Poel's training philosophy (and they're both swedes)
It's an old podcast from February but there were a lot of interesting nuggets of information
Like his training mostly consists of threshold, and at the time of recording, he ran 80 - 90 km a week, with 4 HOURS of cross training on the elliptical at threshold HR. It just got me thinking, with people like Keely, Valby, Alex Yee (especially him since he's run 13:13 and 2:11 on triathlon training) that do a ton of cross training and are still very good, are we pure runners just overtraining?
Lets say he does 90km = 56 miles a week + 4 hours of elliptical, and say he runs 7:30 miles (probably he has a faster average but who knows how slow his recovery is). So 7.5 x 56 = 420 minutes = 7 hours + 4 hours = 11 hours of training/6 (we give him a day off) = less than 2 hours of training a day.
It sounds like a lot when you think in running terms but I know youth swimmers who train more than that. This guy is world class so it sounds totally reasonable to me.
I do think we are in a new age where people are experimenting with stuff like elliptical and getting some good results. I think it is worth investigating and I'd like to know more about how to get the effort level right on an elliptical so one could avoid overtraining.
It's an old podcast from February but there were a lot of interesting nuggets of information
Like his training mostly consists of threshold, and at the time of recording, he ran 80 - 90 km a week, with 4 HOURS of cross training on the elliptical at threshold HR. It just got me thinking, with people like Keely, Valby, Alex Yee (especially him since he's run 13:13 and 2:11 on triathlon training) that do a ton of cross training and are still very good, are we pure runners just overtraining?
BTW: where is Parker Valby? Seems that I haven’t seen her running for a while.
Jakob did cross training whilst he was injured with his achilles and he lost his fitness at the world's. That's proof cross training is pointless. You just get good at cross training.
A Swedish cross country skiier weighting more than 100 kg are running 30k at 31:37. People don't improve running economy that much by running a lot of miles, but for most some of the miles should be slow
Jakob did cross training whilst he was injured with his achilles and he lost his fitness at the world's. That's proof cross training is pointless. You just get good at cross training.
LOL or maybe if we apply your dumb logic we could say that someone can run 13:02 on cross training alone.
‘Threshold HR’ is somewhere between nebulous and ridiculous as HR, blood lactate and RPE are activity dependent
Exactly, many misses that point - crosstraining thresh for running is rather low intensity vo2 max if there´s such as thing. Probably was the success of Nils van der Poel due to the correspondence between muscle use in cycling and speed skating. That´s why he could convert cycling threshold inte speed skating threshold development during his cycling thresh phase in the late summer/fall before starting speed skating.
‘Threshold HR’ is somewhere between nebulous and ridiculous as HR, blood lactate and RPE are activity dependent
Exactly, many misses that point - crosstraining thresh for running is rather low intensity vo2 max if there´s such as thing. Probably was the success of Nils van der Poel due to the correspondence between muscle use in cycling and speed skating. That´s why he could convert cycling threshold inte speed skating threshold development during his cycling thresh phase in the late summer/fall before starting speed skating.
Exactly. Speed skaters have been cycling in the summer for decades. Same with xc skiers. When the skate style emerged in the 1980s skiers started to cycle in the summer.
Jakob did cross training whilst he was injured with his achilles and he lost his fitness at the world's. That's proof cross training is pointless. You just get good at cross training.
It's not proof of this at all. We don't have the counterfactual example of Jakob not cross training which we would need to evaluate its usefulness. It's perfectly plausible, and indeed likely, that he would have been worse had he not cross trained at all in the period when he was injured.
listened to him talk in the podcast "Runners FM" after his 10k pb last week. some interesting things I noted:
- the 28:53 10k pb wasn't a great race from his perspective, he thinks he can get to low 28 if he has a good day and a flat course.
- 3k/5k are his best distances even though he's a threshold fanatic (he very rarely does a session harder than threshold), possibly because he's still young.
- The 13:36 5k was a big surprise, he aimed for sub 14
- can't run valencia 10k because he's still too young
- doesn't train high intensity because of injury risk
- thinks threshold training works for everyone, unlike higher intensity stuff
- 2 threshold sessions in a week, 1 long run, the rest is easy.
- 100-120 km weekly mileage + 3-4 hrs of crosstraining on the elliptical
- does long threshold, shortest is 1k, doesn't do 400m threshold intervals like almgren/ingebrigtsen.
- longest threshold is 5k, but sometimes does 10k at LT1 pace around 3:15/k, with 2.1 mmol lactate.
- his vo2 max is 79
- threshold pace is around 2:56
- thinks half marathon will be his best distance, so he's been doing some half marathon sessions like 4x10 mins and 4x3k
- he wants to run the world road championship next year in the half marathon.
- he has British citizenship so technically he can run for GB
- sponsored by hoka so he's interested in joining team makou in the next few years
