Is bicarbonate aiding in training?

Yes, there is research that shows long term use in training improves race performance.

Post the article.

I know someone who is on one of the top college distance teams in the country and their coach makes them regularly use bicarb in their practices. They were told that research shows that using bicarb in practice allows you to train harder which then allows you to race faster.

I haven't seen the research myself but the members of that team have been getting great results.

I have read similar articles and the improvements tend to be across the board in regards to events. Anything that can allow you to go harder in training with rest and recovery afterward will lead to improved performance.

Is Maurten the king or are there other brands that would do the trick for better price?

Maurten is good

Flycarb.com is already much cheaper than maurten. Or make your own with xanthan gum and carbs and store bought bicarb

Could be used as a means to explain improvements gained via ped use?

The only way you’re going to find out if and how much it helps your performance is in practice. Why would you only use it during your race?!

The science nerd in me wants to withhold judgment until we have great data. Unfortunately that's not how sports science works.

Lots of tiny "experiments" happen organically. People copy the successful teams/coaches/runners. The things that seem to work usually rise to the top.

But sometimes really terrible ideas raise to the top(ie the 90s and 2000s).

I'm sure there is published scientific data out there. But nothing robust like hundreds or thousands of subjects in a double blind RCT. That quality of research is rare in sports science.

The whole point of workouts are to create real, lasting adaptations. Why would you want to use something in workouts that temporarily does the adaptation for you. In my opinion, it makes more sense to just use it on race day; or not use it at all.

Also the body is always adapting to what we ingest and do. My hunch is that over time bicarb becomes less and less effective for users because the body adjusts to it.

I've watched several of the instagram reels by this seller, and question many of the claims.

I doubt anyone is using it REGULARLY in training. Only for races the occasional hard time trial leading up to the A race. It doesn’t add up. The effective dose is 0.3g per kg of body weight. For a 160lb runner this is like 21g of bicarb.

21g of bicarb has 5,700mg of sodium. This is like drinking half a liter of sea water. If someone consumed this much sodium everyday along with sodium in their diet they would go into a coma or get hurt from the elevated blood pressure or renal kidney failure.

I’ve seen a lot of discussion here about using bicarb in training vs. just on race day, so I figured I’d chime in with some background on what’s actually going on physiologically and how it can fit into a training plan.
What bicarb actually does:
Bicarb doesn’t stop lactate production it buffers the hydrogen ions (H+) that accumulate when you’re running at or above threshold. It’s those H+ ions that lower pH, interfere with muscle contraction, and make your legs feel like they’re filling with cement. By buffering H+, bicarb lets you hold higher intensities longer before that “burn” forces you to slow down.

When you remove some of the acidosis limitation, you can extend time at or near threshold either by adding more reps or slightly increasing pace without digging a deeper hole in terms of central fatigue. That extra time-on-task at high aerobic demand is one of the biggest drivers of adaptations like moving your lactate curve to the right.

You still have to respect the mechanical load of course.

There’s a concern that the body “gets used to” bicarb, but current research suggests its buffering effect doesn’t disappear. What can happen is that if you train exclusively with bicarb, you might adapt less to the discomfort of acidosis. But really that doesn't matter if you always take it. It's like saying to testosterone users "why would you take T because when you come off it you will be worse".. SMH

Also, a lot of top collegiate and pro groups are already using bicarb in certain workouts leading up to big races not just for the acute performance boost, but to accumulate more quality work at the right end of the aerobic spectrum. When used strategically, it’s a legal, safe way to mimic the “best day” feeling in workouts and make those adaptations stick.
If you’re curious, the key is experimenting in training well before race day so you know your dosage, timing, and gut tolerance otherwise you’re rolling the dice.

Bicarb 2.0 is insane.. Cheapest on the market and their team seems to be doing all the right things to try and make it the best on the market as well. Some hate the taste but I really don't mind.

I hear where you’re coming from, but I think there’s a misunderstanding about how bicarb works in training. It doesn’t “do the adaptation for you” it buffers hydrogen ions so you can sustain a given pace for longer before hitting that acidic wall. The acid is there it is just happening at a faster pace or later time. You still produce the lactate, and lactate itself is a signaling molecule for mitochondrial biogenesis, so you’re still getting the aerobic adaptations. The difference is that you can accumulate more quality work at the same relative intensity.

Here is an example I give people that I think helps:
Workout #1:
5 x mile @5:30 with 90 sec rest. Mm of lactate = 3.0 for all 5 and a muscular acidity of 7.0

Workout #2
5 x mile @5:30 with 90 sec rest. Mm of lactate = 3.0 for all 5 and a muscular acidity of 7.2 (less acidic = more comfortable)

The workout is the same, the same millimoles of lactate, but the acidity changes. So you're still getting the same adaptations, but at a more comfortable pace that leaves you less fatigued. So you can either run faster, run further, or turn around and do a quick out, do a workout sooner.

Curious though which specific claims from my reels are you questioning? Always open to clarifying or sharing the research that backs them.

The video of your mom saying that she thought bicarb helped her 5k (which she said she ran/walked) seemed like a bit of a stretch. Also your video comparing bicarb to PED's that pro cyclist take in the Tour made me squirm for various reasons. I also really don't like bicarb being marketed to highsschoolers.

Admittedly, I hate the whole idea of bicarb and that runners are using it. I want running to be about hard work, not about what supplements you can afford to take.

Thanks for commenting on here. This is good information to have and you explain it in a way that makes sense. I think stuff like this is awesome and a really cool way people are advancing the sport. I was happy have your guys' reels on my feed and thought the two bottles thing on the treadmill was really cool. I understand the value in having more options on the market, and I'll make sure to try your product when I run some races.

With that being said, I feel like some skepticism is warranted since you profit from this, especially if I'm not hearing some of your claims anywhere else and the arguments made in the reels aren't entirely logically sound and seem to be hyperbolic or at least oversimplified. Also, it's kind of funny that you created an account to promote your own product, and referred to yourself in the third person on one of them, and in the first on another. It makes me question the accuracy of anecdotes created by anonymous accounts on this thread. I'd like to see the research on this.

I thought the part about bicarb if you used during training causing a, I think you said 4-5% increase in performance, seemed like a stretch and you didn't really explain how it could possible be that impactful. I also think marketing it for frequent use to high schoolers seems a little sleazy, since it's relatively expensive right now, you're probably overstating it's actual impact, and maybe there's a safety concern with that much sodium, though maybe I'm kind of cheap. I get though that the best way to get bicarb to be an actually viable option for training is to make it cheaper and less likely to cause sh*tting issues, which is what you're really doing by making a competing product, and maybe there's no way to have a successful product without sometimes selling it to people who shouldn't be buying it. Super shoes would probably be way more expensive if only Nike sold them and nobody bought Alphaflys to powerwalk around the mall.

Mods, why did my post get removed with a link to actual research?!?!?