As 16-year-old Cooper Lutkenhaus rounded the last turn heading into the final straight in Sunday’s USATF 800-meter final in Eugene, Oregon, the broad-shouldered junior-to-be at Northwest High Schoo…
I think one thing Cooper has going for him that Jim didn't is running isn't as big of a deal as it was 60 years ago as societys/ports is more fragmented than it was 60 years ago. Back then Ryun was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, there were no women's sports, soccer wasn't a thing, etc.
Fame and stress is a 2 way street. Ryun, Pre, Carl Lewis, Centro, Jakob,...and Tiger Woods, MJ, Griffey Jr, Ichiro, Rurh, Brady, Ohtani all thrived in the spotlight. The pressure brings out their best.
It also brings more income.
All things considered, I'd rather be in the limelight and learn how to cope with it, than run in obscurity.
I think one thing Cooper has going for him that Jim didn't is running isn't as big of a deal as it was 60 years ago as societys/ports is more fragmented than it was 60 years ago. Back then Ryun was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, there were no women's sports, soccer wasn't a thing, etc.
I would argue that competitive track wasn’t quite as cutthroat at that elite high school level back then as it is now; now, I think it is harder to stand out like Ryun did compared to Ryun’s time for sure. That being said, this run is also not quite the best in the world performances Ryun was putting up. If he gets sub 1:42 and gets a medal I’ll herald it as better than Ryun though.
Another factor is Cooper, for now, is an 800m runner. If you go back in the past, you will be hard pressed to find 800m runners who became legends, unless they also did well in other events. Maybe you can name a couple, but there is a huge difference between being someone who track fans know about and being a household name. And 800m runners are rarely if ever household names.
He was legendary but soccer was so irrelevant in the United States that more people had heard of Pele than had ever seen him play. By the time he joined the Cosmos he was well past his prime.
I swear I am not making this up. ABC showed the 1970 World Cup final on tape many months after the fact. And nobody was complaining. They waited until the holidays when basically nothing was going on live that they could televise. Only at that point did they show the replay of Brazil defeating Italy from the prior summer. It was on Wide World of Sports.
To this day I have never seen the 1974 World Cup final between West Germany and the Netherlands. My friend was a soccer fanatic and huge Dutch fan, due to their style of play. He saw it somewhere but I don't know how.
By 1978 we were in the pay per view era, thanks to boxing. I decided I wanted to watch the World Cup final live. A few friends and I went to Miami Jai Alai fronton, where it was shown via closed circuit to a rowdy jam packed Hispanic crowd. My friends and I were among the few rooting for the Netherlands, who lost in overtime to Argentina.
By 1982 there was a bit of a breakthrough. The Spanish networks in the United States got the rights to carry the entire tournament. That was amazing. I watched every game. ABC televised the final live.
Not until 1986 did was there greater attention from English speaking networks. ESPN covered most games and NBC the others. There were watch parties and accelerated attention. That's why it was perfect timing for Maradona. He was the first soccer superstar who the American public had actually viewed during his prime.
Another factor is Cooper, for now, is an 800m runner. If you go back in the past, you will be hard pressed to find 800m runners who became legends, unless they also did well in other events. Maybe you can name a couple, but there is a huge difference between being someone who track fans know about and being a household name. And 800m runners are rarely if ever household names.
Ryun simultaneously held the WRs in the mile & 880y, plus the 1500 (en route)and 800 (en route) in 1966 at age 19 and he was definitely a household name worldwide and in the US
Todat, David Rudisha is as much a "household" name as El G ...if you can call either that (both somewhat marginal in the US!) They're both t&f legends but t&f is not nearly as popular anymore. Rudisha 2012 Olympic performance is perhaps revered more the ElGs 3:26.
I would argue that competitive track wasn’t quite as cutthroat at that elite high school level back then as it is now; now, I think it is harder to stand out like Ryun did compared to Ryun’s time for sure. That being said, this run is also not quite the best in the world performances Ryun was putting up. If he gets sub 1:42 and gets a medal I’ll herald it as better than Ryun though.
Brother Ryun didn’t win a medal in HS, much less at 16 years old. Hoppel and Hoey are legit top 5 guys in the world, and Cooper just beat both of them convincingly. Ryun was 2s off the mile WR in HS, Cooper is 1s off the 800m WR, so I’d call them about even in that sense. At age 17, Ryun was last in his semi at the Olympics (fun fact they were also in Tokyo that year), so I think if Cooper comes next to last in the semis at Worlds, he’ll be better than Ryun. Of course, he still has 2 years to better it.
Another factor is Cooper, for now, is an 800m runner. If you go back in the past, you will be hard pressed to find 800m runners who became legends, unless they also did well in other events. Maybe you can name a couple, but there is a huge difference between being someone who track fans know about and being a household name. And 800m runners are rarely if ever household names.
Ryun simultaneously held the WRs in the mile & 880y, plus the 1500 (en route)and 800 (en route) in 1966 at age 19 and he was definitely a household name worldwide and in the US
Todat, David Rudisha is as much a "household" name as El G ...if you can call either that (both somewhat marginal in the US!) They're both t&f legends but t&f is not nearly as popular anymore. Rudisha 2012 Olympic performance is perhaps revered more the ElGs 3:26.
You obviously didn’t read my post. Maybe read it again.
Another factor is Cooper, for now, is an 800m runner. If you go back in the past, you will be hard pressed to find 800m runners who became legends, unless they also did well in other events. Maybe you can name a couple, but there is a huge difference between being someone who track fans know about and being a household name. And 800m runners are rarely if ever household names.
Ryun simultaneously held the WRs in the mile & 880y, plus the 1500 (en route)and 800 (en route) in 1966 at age 19 and he was definitely a household name worldwide and in the US
Todat, David Rudisha is as much a "household" name as El G ...if you can call either that (both somewhat marginal in the US!) They're both t&f legends but t&f is not nearly as popular anymore. Rudisha 2012 Olympic performance is perhaps revered more the ElGs 3:26.
Ryun never held the 800 or 880 WR, Snell had the record before it went to Dave Wottle. Ryan was amazing, you don't have to make stuff up.
I think one thing Cooper has going for him that Jim didn't is running isn't as big of a deal as it was 60 years ago as societys/ports is more fragmented than it was 60 years ago. Back then Ryun was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, there were no women's sports, soccer wasn't a thing, etc.
Ummm... ever heard of Pelé?
Soccer was huge outside North America, we know that.
Ryun simultaneously held the WRs in the mile & 880y, plus the 1500 (en route)and 800 (en route) in 1966 at age 19 and he was definitely a household name worldwide and in the US
Todat, David Rudisha is as much a "household" name as El G ...if you can call either that (both somewhat marginal in the US!) They're both t&f legends but t&f is not nearly as popular anymore. Rudisha 2012 Olympic performance is perhaps revered more the ElGs 3:26.
Ryun never held the 800 or 880 WR, Snell had the record before it went to Dave Wottle. Ryan was amazing, you don't have to make stuff up.
up comes a picture of Luk looking 100 percent Ryan
i posted the ryun reincarnate and its obvious now to many.
with the training moving forward,
i emphasize to continue doing what you're doing, ...
and not change it up, like Mu disaster.
I haven't read the article yet, but yeah, I agree. I thought a while ago that Lutkenhaus looks a lot like Ryun. I wouldn't be surprised if they not too distantly related if they did some genealogical or genetic research.
Another factor is Cooper, for now, is an 800m runner. If you go back in the past, you will be hard pressed to find 800m runners who became legends, unless they also did well in other events. Maybe you can name a couple, but there is a huge difference between being someone who track fans know about and being a household name. And 800m runners are rarely if ever household names.
Ryun simultaneously held the WRs in the mile & 880y, plus the 1500 (en route)and 800 (en route) in 1966 at age 19 and he was definitely a household name worldwide and in the US
Todat, David Rudisha is as much a "household" name as El G ...if you can call either that (both somewhat marginal in the US!) They're both t&f legends but t&f is not nearly as popular anymore. Rudisha 2012 Olympic performance is perhaps revered more the ElGs 3:26.
John Landy is the most recent man to break the 1500m world record en route to breaking the world record for the mile.
People comparing Lutkenhaus to Ryun are putting a curse on the boy. He will be destined to lose to a doped up Kenyan in LA, that he has beaten and dominated 20 times before, then in 2032 he'll get tripped in the semi-final.
Ryun's page does say he set the 880y record, but there's no online world record progression list for 880y that i can find to corroborate that.
It's well known and documented that Ryun set the world record in the 880y in 1966. It was his first world record in fact.
He broke Snell's 880y world record of 1:45.1. Snell set the 800m world record en route to the 880y world record that Ryun broke. There was no time keeper at the 800m en route mark in Ryun's race so he wasn't credited with an 800 record, just the 880y record.
Ryun simultaneously held the WRs in the mile & 880y, plus the 1500 (en route)and 800 (en route) in 1966 at age 19 and he was definitely a household name worldwide and in the US
Todat, David Rudisha is as much a "household" name as El G ...if you can call either that (both somewhat marginal in the US!) They're both t&f legends but t&f is not nearly as popular anymore. Rudisha 2012 Olympic performance is perhaps revered more the ElGs 3:26.
John Landy is the most recent man to break the 1500m world record en route to breaking the world record for the mile.
Ryun's 1500 en route time in his first mile world record was 3:36.1. Herb Elliott held the world record at the time at 3:35.6. Ryun would beat that mark the following year with a 3:33.1.
I would argue that competitive track wasn’t quite as cutthroat at that elite high school level back then as it is now; now, I think it is harder to stand out like Ryun did compared to Ryun’s time for sure. That being said, this run is also not quite the best in the world performances Ryun was putting up. If he gets sub 1:42 and gets a medal I’ll herald it as better than Ryun though.
Brother Ryun didn’t win a medal in HS, much less at 16 years old. Hoppel and Hoey are legit top 5 guys in the world, and Cooper just beat both of them convincingly. Ryun was 2s off the mile WR in HS, Cooper is 1s off the 800m WR, so I’d call them about even in that sense. At age 17, Ryun was last in his semi at the Olympics (fun fact they were also in Tokyo that year), so I think if Cooper comes next to last in the semis at Worlds, he’ll be better than Ryun. Of course, he still has 2 years to better it.
All true, but my guess is Lutkenhaus has run his very best race for this season already and may not break 1:45 again, whereas a Bryce Hoppel has proven he knows how to taper and peak for when it really counts. As for Hoey, well, he went out too fast and did all the pace work. Not sure what to say about that.
Ryun is an apt comparison. Who knows how fast he would be with today’s shoes on today’s tracks with today’s “gimmicks” like bicarb? I think he very likely would be a 1:42 man himself and sub-3:30. But not at age 16…
