LRC gives Hocker a B- at Pre. In what world was that a B- performance for the reigning gold medalist? I’d give him a C- at best. More like a D… in full disclosure, they linked to a thread in the instagram post but you can’t click the link or copy/paste it, so not sure if that was what Ruxton Towers XC gave as a grade or LRC. Not going to search through the message board to find the thread
LRC gives Hocker a B- at Pre. In what world was that a B- performance for the reigning gold medalist? I’d give him a C- at best. More like a D… in full disclosure, they linked to a thread in the instagram post but you can’t click the link or copy/paste it, so not sure if that was what Ruxton Towers XC gave as a grade or LRC. Not going to search through the message board to find the thread
D is harsh for a 4th place finish. I’d say it was about a C+/C which is where I’d have Tim and Wightman too. He didn’t “win” the race in the second pack, Laros did and by a lot. I’d reserve a D for someone like Kessler, Kipsang, Hoare or Nillesen. Bs for Habz, Reynold, Myers. Laros, Yared and Fisher higher grades.
LRC gives Hocker a B- at Pre. In what world was that a B- performance for the reigning gold medalist? I’d give him a C- at best. More like a D… in full disclosure, they linked to a thread in the instagram post but you can’t click the link or copy/paste it, so not sure if that was what Ruxton Towers XC gave as a grade or LRC. Not going to search through the message board to find the thread
D is harsh for a 4th place finish. I’d say it was about a C+/C which is where I’d have Tim and Wightman too. He didn’t “win” the race in the second pack, Laros did and by a lot. I’d reserve a D for someone like Kessler, Kipsang, Hoare or Nillesen. Bs for Habz, Reynold, Myers. Laros, Yared and Fisher higher grades.
It depends on the grading criteria. For 3:27-closing-in-53 Cole Hocker, yesteday is easily a D. That guy should never be a distant 4th in a barely 3:45 race, but if the assumption is that he won't reach that level until Worlds, then I suppose you can point out that he's ahead of where he was last year and arrive at a B-/C+ grade.
B is too generous for Habz. Based on his DL results thus far, he should've won the race or at least been right there. There's no reason for him to be getting dropped by Nuguse like that when we've seen him run 3:27.5 from the front.
You are correct. Kids dont understand grading anymore. C was average until 20 years ago. If Hocker runs the race 10 times, the median is his C. The top is his A and the worst is his F. Then a B or 2 and a D or 2. This has to be about a D+.
It depends on the grading criteria. For 3:27-closing-in-53 Cole Hocker, yesteday is easily a D. That guy should never be a distant 4th in a barely 3:45 race, but if the assumption is that he won't reach that level until Worlds, then I suppose you can point out that he's ahead of where he was last year and arrive at a B-/C+ grade.
B is too generous for Habz. Based on his DL results thus far, he should've won the race or at least been right there. There's no reason for him to be getting dropped by Nuguse like that when we've seen him run 3:27.5 from the front.
Good points. In my gradebook, anyone achieving a PB deserves at least a B-, but you're right about expectations mattering.
Putting the quibbles of grades aside, I want to highlight your comment that Hocker is ahead of where he was last year. That's my main takeaway from Pre. In last year's race, he finished 7th in 3:48.95, more than 3.5 seconds behind the winner. This year, he finished 4th in 3:47.43, and he was within 1.5 seconds of the winner.
Moreover, compared to the same point in the season last year, Hocker has run faster at 800m, 3k, and 5k.
800m: 1:45.63 last year -->1:45.13 this year
3k: 7:35 last year -->7:23 this year
5k: 12:58 last year --> 12:57 this year
Based on all the above, plus knowing that Hocker is a savant at peaking for championship races, I'm feeling very optimistic about where he's at now.
B is too generous for Habz. Based on his DL results thus far, he should've won the race or at least been right there. There's no reason for him to be getting dropped by Nuguse like that when we've seen him run 3:27.5 from the front.
I thought we went through this. Habz is not a 3:27 runner. He ran 3:27 that day, under surreal home backing and internal pride. Regression is inevitable and it will be more pronounced than we saw on Saturday.
Nillessen deserves the D grade. It was ridiculous for him to sit back at 3:34 near the rear of the pack when he had a breakthrough 3:29 Dutch record after racing not far behind the pacers and Habz. But lots of these guys race differently depending on who else is in the race. I'm convinced that what happened to Nillessen. He didn't feel out of place while forwardly placed in France. But stick him in a race with the big names and he defers. He's got to get over that. He's also lacking in experience going back and forth from continent to continent.
It depends on the grading criteria. For 3:27-closing-in-53 Cole Hocker, yesteday is easily a D. That guy should never be a distant 4th in a barely 3:45 race, but if the assumption is that he won't reach that level until Worlds, then I suppose you can point out that he's ahead of where he was last year and arrive at a B-/C+ grade.
B is too generous for Habz. Based on his DL results thus far, he should've won the race or at least been right there. There's no reason for him to be getting dropped by Nuguse like that when we've seen him run 3:27.5 from the front.
Good points. In my gradebook, anyone achieving a PB deserves at least a B-, but you're right about expectations mattering.
Putting the quibbles of grades aside, I want to highlight your comment that Hocker is ahead of where he was last year. That's my main takeaway from Pre. In last year's race, he finished 7th in 3:48.95, more than 3.5 seconds behind the winner. This year, he finished 4th in 3:47.43, and he was within 1.5 seconds of the winner.
Moreover, compared to the same point in the season last year, Hocker has run faster at 800m, 3k, and 5k.
800m: 1:45.63 last year -->1:45.13 this year
3k: 7:35 last year -->7:23 this year
5k: 12:58 last year --> 12:57 this year
Based on all the above, plus knowing that Hocker is a savant at peaking for championship races, I'm feeling very optimistic about where he's at now.
So my takeaway from your post is...A?
Honestly I don't expect to be in pr shape at all times. If I'm ahead of schedule from the year prior (when I did set a pr) I'm ecstatic.
It depends on the grading criteria. For 3:27-closing-in-53 Cole Hocker, yesteday is easily a D. That guy should never be a distant 4th in a barely 3:45 race, but if the assumption is that he won't reach that level until Worlds, then I suppose you can point out that he's ahead of where he was last year and arrive at a B-/C+ grade.
B is too generous for Habz. Based on his DL results thus far, he should've won the race or at least been right there. There's no reason for him to be getting dropped by Nuguse like that when we've seen him run 3:27.5 from the front.
Yeah I’m going with the second criteria obviously. At some point (USAs?) we’ll need to see that form of Hocker, but for now it wasn’t a clunker, it just wasn’t close to his best ever aka a C+/C
For Habz, it seems you are basing it solely on one career-best race in Paris. He barely beat Tim in a 3:29.7 race in Oslo, and lost a race before that in Rabat when he had to lead much of it. So while I thought he could’ve finished as high as 1st in this race, 3rd and a solid time after a 1:51.xx 800m split is pretty good. He was right there, but in a mile if you go out that hard it can backfire.
Yeah I’m going with the second criteria obviously. At some point (USAs?) we’ll need to see that form of Hocker, but for now it wasn’t a clunker, it just wasn’t close to his best ever aka a C+/C
For Habz, it seems you are basing it solely on one career-best race in Paris. He barely beat Tim in a 3:29.7 race in Oslo, and lost a race before that in Rabat when he had to lead much of it. So while I thought he could’ve finished as high as 1st in this race, 3rd and a solid time after a 1:51.xx 800m split is pretty good. He was right there, but in a mile if you go out that hard it can backfire.
Yeah I think giving Habz a harsh grade might be stemming from suspicion of his 3:27.49, that it’s a doped performance. Regardless of doping, it’s not inexplicable that he wouldn’t match that performance on a) a different day b) a track that required 5,300 miles’ travel from Paris (his home country where he ran the 3:27) and c) a distance he’s marginally worse at than 1500. To his credit he raced for the win as the only guy to go with Nuguse mid-race, and his time of 3:46.65 was a National Record and the equivalent of 3:29-high. I don’t know how you can give that less than a B, maybe a B-.
Yeah I’m going with the second criteria obviously. At some point (USAs?) we’ll need to see that form of Hocker, but for now it wasn’t a clunker, it just wasn’t close to his best ever aka a C+/C
For Habz, it seems you are basing it solely on one career-best race in Paris. He barely beat Tim in a 3:29.7 race in Oslo, and lost a race before that in Rabat when he had to lead much of it. So while I thought he could’ve finished as high as 1st in this race, 3rd and a solid time after a 1:51.xx 800m split is pretty good. He was right there, but in a mile if you go out that hard it can backfire.
Yeah I think giving Habz a harsh grade might be stemming from suspicion of his 3:27.49, that it’s a doped performance. Regardless of doping, it’s not inexplicable that he wouldn’t match that performance on a) a different day b) a track that required 5,300 miles’ travel from Paris (his home country where he ran the 3:27) and c) a distance he’s marginally worse at than 1500. To his credit he raced for the win as the only guy to go with Nuguse mid-race, and his time of 3:46.65 was a National Record and the equivalent of 3:29-high. I don’t know how you can give that less than a B, maybe a B-.
Exactly. Many people get the weird impression that elite runners can hold on to his peak like forever, which couldn't be further from the truth. The vast majority of their performances just fluctuate.
Jakob, El g are the rare breed (which also makes them great).
B is too generous for Habz. Based on his DL results thus far, he should've won the race or at least been right there. There's no reason for him to be getting dropped by Nuguse like that when we've seen him run 3:27.5 from the front.
I thought we went through this. Habz is not a 3:27 runner. He ran 3:27
This grade seems fair to me. I’d maybe even give a flat out B. He ran faster than he did last year, and also placed higher. A = great performance B = good C = fair D = poor F = failure / disastrous
Somewhere between fair and good seems reasonable. I don’t think very many actually expected him to win this race. Based on the result I don’t think a medal at worlds is unquestionable, but it’s going to be hard bc there are a lot more contenders this year.
Good points. In my gradebook, anyone achieving a PB deserves at least a B-, but you're right about expectations mattering.
Putting the quibbles of grades aside, I want to highlight your comment that Hocker is ahead of where he was last year. That's my main takeaway from Pre. In last year's race, he finished 7th in 3:48.95, more than 3.5 seconds behind the winner. This year, he finished 4th in 3:47.43, and he was within 1.5 seconds of the winner.
Moreover, compared to the same point in the season last year, Hocker has run faster at 800m, 3k, and 5k.
800m: 1:45.63 last year -->1:45.13 this year
3k: 7:35 last year -->7:23 this year
5k: 12:58 last year --> 12:57 this year
Based on all the above, plus knowing that Hocker is a savant at peaking for championship races, I'm feeling very optimistic about where he's at now.
So my takeaway from your post is...A?
Honestly I don't expect to be in pr shape at all times. If I'm ahead of schedule from the year prior (when I did set a pr) I'm ecstatic.
I wouldn't go that high. For comparison, I gave an A to Joe Kovacs. His mark wasn't close to his lifetime best nor what he's thrown in previous years at this point in the season, but that's understandable because he's 36. The difference is Kovacs won his event, and his mark was a world-leader.
I'd give Hocker a B. If my math is correct, his time equates to about 3:30.58. He's never run that fast 10 weeks out from a global championship. In fact, that would have been his PB prior to the Paris Olympics! It was a good performance for him, but not great.