Can I replace interval workouts with tempo runs and still improve?

It might work. But why are you planning the workouts you'll do every week, rather than how you will progress your workouts over time as you gain fitness?

These kinds of things can work well for some people but not necessarily all. I never did well with intervals but did okay (for me) with fast steady runs. I remember an interview with Jeff Galloway after he amde the '72 Olympic team where he said he was too tired most days after teaching all day to do intervals so he just did steady runs at a decent clip. There's only one way to find out if this will work for you.

Yes, it can work.

Drop the intervals

Slow the tempo runs down and lengthen them out. Your plan has you running to runs per week that are nearly as hard as your PR. How about once per week of something like 30 ish minutes at 6:40 pace followed by a couple of faster (40 second?) 200s. Second hard session of the week could be a progression run inserted into a medium long run. Strides at the end. Throw in an easy long run in there, with occasional 20 second accelerations to a fast, but comfortable pace.

Fill in the rest of the week with as much easy mileage as you can manage.

It seems like you are currently ignoring one aspect of training and overemphasizing another. Your solution is to ignore the part that you are currently overemphasizing so that you can overemphasize the part you are currently ignoring. Why not find a balance where you can get some weekly time at tempo pace, but also find some time to be at the faster velocities associated with interval work. Living above and below goal pace will help you get to where you want to be. No need to choose between the two.

Instead of a straight tempo at 6:00-6:10 pace. Break it down to 5 to 10 minute intervals with a min or two rest. Aiming for 30 to 40 minutes of total work at tempo pace.

This is another thing I thought about you being "stuck" after I put up that earlier post. I have no idea if this applies to you or not but I think it's worth mentioning. I have no idea how much you run but lots of people now don't run very much. They can get "stuck" simply because the amount of running they do just isn't enough to get them fit enough to go faster and tinkering with details, more intervals, no intervals, hills, tempos, etc., isn't going to do much because they have gotten as fit as they can on the amount of running they do. Again, I have no idea if this even remotely applies to you but I want to toss the idea into the mix here.

No. This will make you slower, not faster.

Thanks for the replies.

HRE - yes I only run 35-40 miles a week but I've been consistent for 2 years now.

I did a 1:22 flat half the other month so I'm basing my threshold pace off that (I went through 1 hour at 6:10 pace but with a positive split... it was a bad race).

The problem I have with interval workouts is I can't hammer them like other people. I struggle to do mile reps at 5:50 pace unless I have 3 minutes rest. But I can run tempo pace much easier.

Norwegian singles thread, may I introduce Stuck on 18:00? It's his first time. Stuck on 18:00, the Norwegian singles thread. You'll get on like a house on fire. Champagne is circulating and do help yourselves to the vol au vents, they're awfully good. I must mingle - I'll see you two later. Have fun!

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=12130781

You aren't supposed to hammer intervals. My guess is you aren't recovered enough from your other training when you get to a workout day. The biggest bang for your buck is going to be adding more easy mileage, but you can run tempos while you do it as they will help increase your aerobic capacity.

It's definitely possible. A famous exampke is Ron Clarke never did intervals and brought the WR for 10,000m from 28:12 to 27:39 in 1965 during a solo run on a cinder track. Most important is to build a big base (he ran from 100-110 miles a week mostly fast), and then race frequently to sharpen up during the competition phase.

So many different factors can account for being stuck at a certain mark. Mileage is certainly going to be a limiter for a lot of runners. Idk if 40min of running right around true threshold for an 18-flat 5k runner is going to result in big gains. We don't know if you're more strength or speed oriented. Maybe 6:10-6:15 is too fast for threshold work for you if you need to work on endurance. I assume when you say interval workouts you're referring to more specific 5k/10k targeted sessions? How do you structure those sessions? Have you tried increasing rest to do them faster & then repeating later in a build with less rest? Do you touch on mile/3k speed to get 5k goal pace to feel easier? How is your pacing when you do race?

So many ways to look at this. You shouldn't be doing a weekly VO2 session in a calendar year. The 2x threshold plan looks more like base work. Maybe do that for 4+ weeks & then get back into 1x threshold + 1x race specific. When you're in that phase, maybe every 2 weeks add a shorter mile/3k session. It could replace a threshold workout. When you're in the specific phase, you could break up the threshold workout day to maximize volume. Instead of 20min straight, start with 25-30min broken. Build up closer to 40ish. It's easier to get in the volume when you're doing 10x3min @ T w./ 1min standing rest versus 30 straight.

Is 3 minutes rest so crazy for mile reps? When I do mile reps, I do 2:30 to 3 minutes rest and that seems fair to me. I've done workouts that are 5xmile with 2:30 to 3 minutes rest or 2 sets of 3xmile with a mile jog in between the two sets.

And sorry, to answer your original question, optimally you should be doing a mix of both tempos and interval workouts (both at goal 5k pace and faster). How much of each workout depends on where you are in the season relative to your peak race.

At least personally, there's no way I could run my 5k PR base (or anywhere close to it) if I had a season of just tempos that are way slower than race pace.

That's a decent half for a guy stuck at 18:00. This makes me think that mileage is not your problem though I'm always one to say more miles will improve you. But we'll let that go here. I'm a fan of steady runs at a good clip so I like your idea and would encourage it.

I will make a comment about intervals in general and you in particular though. The kinds of interval sessions we used to do (yes, I am a sworn geezer, why hide it) to race at 10 km and down were usually things like 200s, 400s, 800s, maybe a ladder session. I think with your 5:50 mile reps you may be getting the worst of two worlds, not running fast enough to get your muscles adjusted to managing that pace well but still taking too much out of yourself to recover enough to benefit much.

If you want to keep some intervals in I'd suggest running that race pace or so, as sessions of 400s or at most 800s. I think something like 10-12 x 400 in around 85 would be a very good session. You can play around with the recovery but however you structure the session you want to make sure that your effort level in the later reps is about the same as in the early ones. You shouldn't be straining to maintain those times in the late reps. And you could do something similar with other distances too, you might want to if you get bored with 400s but I would not go longer than 800s. And I do like the tempo run idea as well. I'm just tossing out another idea here. You could mix things up, have a session of 400s or whatever AND a tempo run in your week.

I also think you would benefit in running the occasional 2 mile time trial. If your goal race is 5k and you are never racing shorter distance, if you are going to PR at 5k, you're going to be going through 2 miles faster than you've ever run in your life.

If you were a track runner, you'd generally race 1500m and 3000m as well as 5k/5000m and you would have had the experience of going through 3000m at a faster time than you'd be running for your 5k best.

You're going to feel a lot more relaxed in the early stages if you are running a pace slower than you've run for 2 miles.

Since you are running for time, rather than being in a true race situation, you are going to get the biggest bang for your buck with aerobic development. You can do that with tempo runs just a bit slower than you're LT pace (rough guide, the kind of pace you could run for an hour), or you can do it with interval sessions at a similar pace (say 6x1000m with 800m slow jog recovery).

To answer the original question, if you want to get sub 18:00 you could get there on a diet of tempo runs at 6:15 per miles, strides, and the occasional 3000m or 2 mile time trial.

3 minutes rest is normal for mile repeats

two tempo runs a week with strides could be a solid approach. The 6:10-15 pace sounds appropriate for tempo runs. You might also need to incorporate some faster work. You could consider adding a session of interval training every couple of weeks to maintain and improve your speed. Raceday prep is also just as important, do you take caffeine or bicarb? I’ve used caffeine gum and lacticshield on raceday and they been a huge benefit - also don’t blow your load in training race week, taper accordingly

Your 5k pace is under/or just at 5:50. If you can't handle 5:50 pace for intervals, but can handle the pace for 3 miles, it's the way you are doing the intervals that's the problem. I'm guessing that you are running too fast at the beginning of your mile repeats and bottoming out. If so, start at and maintain pace in your mile repeats and you will probably have no issue with the workout.