The curious case of Koitatoi Kidali...

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

The NCAA outdoor season is officially over and one of the most interesting athletes of the season has to be Oregons star recruit Koitatoi Kidali - the "1.42 man" and Kenyan Olympian.

Obviously over here on a full scholarship and strong rumors of a six-figure NIL deal, which would make sense as a 1.42 runner and Kenyan Olympian in the 800m - one of the historically most difficult events to make the Kenyan team in. His 1.42.66 PR makes him the 33rd fastest human ever and while running under 1.43.0 is certainly not as rare as it once was, it's still an incredibly high level of ability. By PR, Kidali was 1.80 seconds faster than the next fastest NCAA 800m runner Sam Whitmarsh (PR 1.44.46) - the eventual 2025 champion.

Things haven't quite worked out for Kidali post the Kenyan Olympic trials. He went to Paris and ran 1.45.84 in the heats - becoming the first sub 1.43.0 runner in history that has started at the Olympic Games to not make out of the first round (he couldn't make it past the repechage either running 1.46.37), and since coming to NCAA things haven't really worked out either. He finished the indoor season with a best of 1.46.55 and being DQ'd at NCAA indoors, and couldn't break 1.47.0 outdoors until the national semi final in Eugene where he was able to run his career second best time of 1.45.31 but unfortunately being so extended in doing so had to dive across the line and injured his shoulder.

Like many of us here, I've watched a lot of middle distance races - especially 800m races. I guess to put it bluntly, I am trying to wrap my head around how this guy has possibly run under 1.43 for 2 laps. I went back and watched the other two sub 1.46.0 races he's run in lifetime (both in the 1.45.X's) and I don't quite get it. My expectation of a 1.42 runner in a 1.45 race is not that it's easy, but that at this level of PR you should find this quite manageable and especially manageable vs other runners not at that level. Similar to how Bryce Hoppel, in winning the US trials in 1.42.77 - his PR at the time, went to Paris and was able to comfortably get through the heat in 1.45.24 - or every other sub 1.43 guy in history. Donovan Brazier only has a lifetime PR only 3 tenths of a second faster than Kidali - and yet after a 3 year hiatus has been able to run two races in under 1.45 and 1.44 respectively looking extremely comfortable.

I guess I'm just confused and would like to know why it's been so tough here under Jerry Schumacher for him to even run close to his potential?

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

The NCAA outdoor season is officially over and one of the most interesting athletes of the season has to be Oregons star recruit Koitatoi Kidali - the "1.42 man" and Kenyan Olympian.

Obviously over here on a full scholarship and strong rumors of a six-figure NIL deal, which would make sense as a 1.42 runner and Kenyan Olympian in the 800m - one of the historically most difficult events to make the Kenyan team in. His 1.42.66 PR makes him the 33rd fastest human ever and while running under 1.43.0 is certainly not as rare as it once was, it's still an incredibly high level of ability. By PR, Kidali was 1.80 seconds faster than the next fastest NCAA 800m runner Sam Whitmarsh (PR 1.44.46) - the eventual 2025 champion.

Things haven't quite worked out for Kidali post the Kenyan Olympic trials. He went to Paris and ran 1.45.84 in the heats - becoming the first sub 1.43.0 runner in history that has started at the Olympic Games to not make out of the first round (he couldn't make it past the repechage either running 1.46.37), and since coming to NCAA things haven't really worked out either. He finished the indoor season with a best of 1.46.55 and being DQ'd at NCAA indoors, and couldn't break 1.47.0 outdoors until the national semi final in Eugene where he was able to run his career second best time of 1.45.31 but unfortunately being so extended in doing so had to dive across the line and injured his shoulder.

Like many of us here, I've watched a lot of middle distance races - especially 800m races. I guess to put it bluntly, I am trying to wrap my head around how this guy has possibly run under 1.43 for 2 laps. I went back and watched the other two sub 1.46.0 races he's run in lifetime (both in the 1.45.X's) and I don't quite get it. My expectation of a 1.42 runner in a 1.45 race is not that it's easy, but that at this level of PR you should find this quite manageable and especially manageable vs other runners not at that level. Similar to how Bryce Hoppel, in winning the US trials in 1.42.77 - his PR at the time, went to Paris and was able to comfortably get through the heat in 1.45.24 - or every other sub 1.43 guy in history. Donovan Brazier only has a lifetime PR only 3 tenths of a second faster than Kidali - and yet after a 3 year hiatus has been able to run two races in under 1.45 and 1.44 respectively looking extremely comfortable.

I guess I'm just confused and would like to know why it's been so tough here under Jerry Schumacher for him to even run close to his potential?

Will coop wrote:

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

The NCAA outdoor season is officially over and one of the most interesting athletes of the season has to be Oregons star recruit Koitatoi Kidali - the "1.42 man" and Kenyan Olympian.

Obviously over here on a full scholarship and strong rumors of a six-figure NIL deal, which would make sense as a 1.42 runner and Kenyan Olympian in the 800m - one of the historically most difficult events to make the Kenyan team in. His 1.42.66 PR makes him the 33rd fastest human ever and while running under 1.43.0 is certainly not as rare as it once was, it's still an incredibly high level of ability. By PR, Kidali was 1.80 seconds faster than the next fastest NCAA 800m runner Sam Whitmarsh (PR 1.44.46) - the eventual 2025 champion.

Things haven't quite worked out for Kidali post the Kenyan Olympic trials. He went to Paris and ran 1.45.84 in the heats - becoming the first sub 1.43.0 runner in history that has started at the Olympic Games to not make out of the first round (he couldn't make it past the repechage either running 1.46.37), and since coming to NCAA things haven't really worked out either. He finished the indoor season with a best of 1.46.55 and being DQ'd at NCAA indoors, and couldn't break 1.47.0 outdoors until the national semi final in Eugene where he was able to run his career second best time of 1.45.31 but unfortunately being so extended in doing so had to dive across the line and injured his shoulder.

Like many of us here, I've watched a lot of middle distance races - especially 800m races. I guess to put it bluntly, I am trying to wrap my head around how this guy has possibly run under 1.43 for 2 laps. I went back and watched the other two sub 1.46.0 races he's run in lifetime (both in the 1.45.X's) and I don't quite get it. My expectation of a 1.42 runner in a 1.45 race is not that it's easy, but that at this level of PR you should find this quite manageable and especially manageable vs other runners not at that level. Similar to how Bryce Hoppel, in winning the US trials in 1.42.77 - his PR at the time, went to Paris and was able to comfortably get through the heat in 1.45.24 - or every other sub 1.43 guy in history. Donovan Brazier only has a lifetime PR only 3 tenths of a second faster than Kidali - and yet after a 3 year hiatus has been able to run two races in under 1.45 and 1.44 respectively looking extremely comfortable.

I guess I'm just confused and would like to know why it's been so tough here under Jerry Schumacher for him to even run close to his potential?

Sorry but a couple minor corrections first - he's run 8 times under 1:46 (not 2). His 2nd best time is 1:45.0 (hand timed in '23) then 1:45.24 from 2022.

But yes curious is right and its a shame he didn't get to run the NCAA final healthy. Jonathan Gault asked Kidali himself in the interview below and his answer - essentially that balancing school and training at Oregon was difficult whereas in Kenya he was all in on running - didn't really give me a ton of confidence tbh.

We discussed the possibility of one-off doping in the other thread which is a real possibility but like you said there this is such a bizarre case and there aren't really other examples of this (Mark Lomuket 5000m kind of?) but whatever the reason for his singular standout 1:42 it doesn't seem to be something many others have done

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD4P8ku1Dqo

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

The NCAA outdoor season is officially over and one of the most interesting athletes of the season has to be Oregons star recruit Koitatoi Kidali - the "1.42 man" and Kenyan Olympian.

Obviously over here on a full scholarship and strong rumors of a six-figure NIL deal, which would make sense as a 1.42 runner and Kenyan Olympian in the 800m - one of the historically most difficult events to make the Kenyan team in. His 1.42.66 PR makes him the 33rd fastest human ever and while running under 1.43.0 is certainly not as rare as it once was, it's still an incredibly high level of ability. By PR, Kidali was 1.80 seconds faster than the next fastest NCAA 800m runner Sam Whitmarsh (PR 1.44.46) - the eventual 2025 champion.

Things haven't quite worked out for Kidali post the Kenyan Olympic trials. He went to Paris and ran 1.45.84 in the heats - becoming the first sub 1.43.0 runner in history that has started at the Olympic Games to not make out of the first round (he couldn't make it past the repechage either running 1.46.37), and since coming to NCAA things haven't really worked out either. He finished the indoor season with a best of 1.46.55 and being DQ'd at NCAA indoors, and couldn't break 1.47.0 outdoors until the national semi final in Eugene where he was able to run his career second best time of 1.45.31 but unfortunately being so extended in doing so had to dive across the line and injured his shoulder.

Like many of us here, I've watched a lot of middle distance races - especially 800m races. I guess to put it bluntly, I am trying to wrap my head around how this guy has possibly run under 1.43 for 2 laps. I went back and watched the other two sub 1.46.0 races he's run in lifetime (both in the 1.45.X's) and I don't quite get it. My expectation of a 1.42 runner in a 1.45 race is not that it's easy, but that at this level of PR you should find this quite manageable and especially manageable vs other runners not at that level. Similar to how Bryce Hoppel, in winning the US trials in 1.42.77 - his PR at the time, went to Paris and was able to comfortably get through the heat in 1.45.24 - or every other sub 1.43 guy in history. Donovan Brazier only has a lifetime PR only 3 tenths of a second faster than Kidali - and yet after a 3 year hiatus has been able to run two races in under 1.45 and 1.44 respectively looking extremely comfortable.

I guess I'm just confused and would like to know why it's been so tough here under Jerry Schumacher for him to even run close to his potential?

Will coop wrote:

Sorry but a couple minor corrections first - he's run 8 times under 1:46 (not 2). His 2nd best time is 1:45.0 (hand timed in '23) then 1:45.24 from 2022.

But yes curious is right and its a shame he didn't get to run the NCAA final healthy. Jonathan Gault asked Kidali himself in the interview below and his answer - essentially that balancing school and training at Oregon was difficult whereas in Kenya he was all in on running - didn't really give me a ton of confidence tbh.

We discussed the possibility of one-off doping in the other thread which is a real possibility but like you said there this is such a bizarre case and there aren't really other examples of this (Mark Lomuket 5000m kind of?) but whatever the reason for his singular standout 1:42 it doesn't seem to be something many others have done

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD4P8ku1Dqo

Snake in the varn wrote:

Will coop wrote:

Sorry but a couple minor corrections first - he's run 8 times under 1:46 (not 2). His 2nd best time is 1:45.0 (hand timed in '23) then 1:45.24 from 2022.

But yes curious is right and its a shame he didn't get to run the NCAA final healthy. Jonathan Gault asked Kidali himself in the interview below and his answer - essentially that balancing school and training at Oregon was difficult whereas in Kenya he was all in on running - didn't really give me a ton of confidence tbh.

We discussed the possibility of one-off doping in the other thread which is a real possibility but like you said there this is such a bizarre case and there aren't really other examples of this (Mark Lomuket 5000m kind of?) but whatever the reason for his singular standout 1:42 it doesn't seem to be something many others have done

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD4P8ku1Dqo

Re: The part about balancing school and running.

It’s been a significant trend the last few years that the best in the ncaa are doing minimal school. The UNC duo, most of Washington, NAU are all known to be in extremely easy majors and/or rarely go to class. There are obviously outliers, but I think this is the main reason for Kidalis lack of success.

Snake in the varn wrote:

Will coop wrote:

Sorry but a couple minor corrections first - he's run 8 times under 1:46 (not 2). His 2nd best time is 1:45.0 (hand timed in '23) then 1:45.24 from 2022.

But yes curious is right and its a shame he didn't get to run the NCAA final healthy. Jonathan Gault asked Kidali himself in the interview below and his answer - essentially that balancing school and training at Oregon was difficult whereas in Kenya he was all in on running - didn't really give me a ton of confidence tbh.

We discussed the possibility of one-off doping in the other thread which is a real possibility but like you said there this is such a bizarre case and there aren't really other examples of this (Mark Lomuket 5000m kind of?) but whatever the reason for his singular standout 1:42 it doesn't seem to be something many others have done

Video:www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD4P8ku1Dqo

Re: The part about balancing school and running.

It’s been a significant trend the last few years that the best in the ncaa are doing minimal school. The UNC duo, most of Washington, NAU are all known to be in extremely easy majors and/or rarely go to class. There are obviously outliers, but I think this is the main reason for Kidalis lack of success.