Josiah and his teammate and fellow sub 4 miler Tavyon appeared on a podcast ahead of this years edition of festival of miles.
he said he thinks he can “run 1:50 back to back in the right race.” I think he can run 3:55 but it’s getting a little comical hearing a new kid every year say they can take down Alan. Am I right?
needless to say, this is the most stacked high school mile race of all time. A shame Powell is dodging comp.
Both are 2 miler / 3200 guys who do not have the 800 speed to go under 355.
Reminds me of the Glenn Cunningham sub 4 story.
Do either of these kids have the speed to run 1:47? If not, it’s laughable to even suggest 3:50, never mind 3:52 or 3:53.
You are right, the 3:50 thing is silly, but that is just a kid being a kid. He basically said, I can easily run 1:55, so two of those should be doable. You are right, that is not going to happen, but I like the "high school logic."
BTW, I listened to this whole podcast (finishing a run and doing yardwork) and was impressed with how confident and yet normal they sounded. They didn't have "a bit" and they weren't trying to be villains. Totally worth listening to.
I was shocked that they would still be celebrating graduation (the full ceremony with the school and the family) in rural southern Oregon the night before the Festival of Miles. They have to fly out on the day of the race and go from the airport to the hotel to the track. That is crazy...
p.s. Owen Powell wasn't "dodging" anyone. He has no obligation to do every HS mile out there...
We need more deluded but talented, hard-working kids who will go for it. All successful sports cultures breed kids like that by the thousands. You have to believe before you can do it. If they die, they die.
A lot of the "rules" about running go out the window when talking about high school athletes. Hobbs Kessler ran 3:34 with a 1:49 800 and 8:39 2-mile, and only a 3:40 1500 PB coming in. Conventional wisdom says that should've been impossible - Webb himself ran 1:47 and 8:42 and his mile was noticeably slower. There are very few pros with a sub-3:35 PB who haven't also run 1:45-1:47, and the only ones who have done it also have sub-13:00 5k PBs.
So I would hesitate to put any high school athlete in a box. Crazy improvements and unusual times are pretty much the norm. If you said a year ago today that Tayvon Kitchen (a 4:11 guy) was going to run 3:41 and 3:59, you would be instantly dismissed. He had a 1:59 800 PB at this point last year, now he can do it twice. Clearly, he is still on the steep part of his improvement curve, and another 7 seconds could be possible. Josiah, meanwhile, has run 1:51 in a lowkey meet this season, and 3:57 indoors. Going under 1:50 is likely only a matter of time for him - would you not think a sub-1:50, sub-8:00 guy would have a shot at 3:53? I only knew a few guys in college who accomplished both, and all of them ran at least 3:38...putting them within spitting distance for sure.
TL;DR: not likely, but not impossible, and I'm glad they are going for it. It's an awesome record that deserves worthy challengers every year until it goes.
Alanwebbfan wrote:
Josiah and his teammate and fellow sub 4 miler Tavyon appeared on a podcast ahead of this years edition of festival of miles.
he said he thinks he can “run 1:50 back to back in the right race.” I think he can run 3:55 but it’s getting a little comical hearing a new kid every year say they can take down Alan. Am I right?
needless to say, this is the most stacked high school mile race of all time. A shame Powell is dodging comp.
They seem thick. Josiah frequently makes his morning toastensons in Tayvon’s kitchen.
Strand has run 3:48 mile with no good 800or 5k.
Nick Old wrote:
Strand has run 3:48 mile with no good 800or 5k.
Great example. He's also still on the steep part of the performance improvement curve, more like a high school athlete in that respect.
Hocker is another one whose 1500 improved far faster than his 800 or 5k. I think at one point he was a 1:50 and 13:30 guy with a 3:50 PB!
Nick Old wrote:
Strand has run 3:48 mile with no good 800or 5k.
Yeah but he's run 7:30 for 3k, he could quite clearly at drop at least a 13:00. I think Gary Martin is a better example - "only" 13:17 and 1:47 or so for a 3:48 mile.
my two pennies wrote:
A lot of the "rules" about running go out the window when talking about high school athletes. Hobbs Kessler ran 3:34 with a 1:49 800 and 8:39 2-mile, and only a 3:40 1500 PB coming in. Conventional wisdom says that should've been impossible - Webb himself ran 1:47 and 8:42 and his mile was noticeably slower. There are very few pros with a sub-3:35 PB who haven't also run 1:45-1:47, and the only ones who have done it also have sub-13:00 5k PBs.
So I would hesitate to put any high school athlete in a box. Crazy improvements and unusual times are pretty much the norm. If you said a year ago today that Tayvon Kitchen (a 4:11 guy) was going to run 3:41 and 3:59, you would be instantly dismissed. He had a 1:59 800 PB at this point last year, now he can do it twice. Clearly, he is still on the steep part of his improvement curve, and another 7 seconds could be possible. Josiah, meanwhile, has run 1:51 in a lowkey meet this season, and 3:57 indoors. Going under 1:50 is likely only a matter of time for him - would you not think a sub-1:50, sub-8:00 guy would have a shot at 3:53? I only knew a few guys in college who accomplished both, and all of them ran at least 3:38...putting them within spitting distance for sure.
TL;DR: not likely, but not impossible, and I'm glad they are going for it. It's an awesome record that deserves worthy challengers every year until it goes.
In fairness, Kessler likely could have run somewhere in the 1:47s, possibly even 1:46s that year. Covid restrictions meant the amount of racing he was able to do was severely limited, but even then he still dropped a 1:47 4x800 split in very very heavy wind at the Michigan state meet that year.
Also, that 3:34 he ran was simply a perfect race. Just a perfect day. Runs like that are just rare.
Alanwebbfan wrote:
Josiah and his teammate and fellow sub 4 miler Tavyon appeared on a podcast ahead of this years edition of festival of miles.
he said he thinks he can “run 1:50 back to back in the right race.” I think he can run 3:55 but it’s getting a little comical hearing a new kid every year say they can take down Alan. Am I right?
needless to say, this is the most stacked high school mile race of all time. A shame Powell is dodging comp.
Isn’t he like 22.
I hope they are deluded enough to give it a shot. I'll be trackside watching the Hoka FoM again this year hoping to witness something special
Nothing is guaranteed. Your statement was incorrect. I gave you an example of a guy whon isn't close to 1:45 or 13 minutes. Liam Murphy is another. Marco Langdon is another. Some people are very good at one event but they drop of quickly at other events.
my two pennies wrote:
A lot of the "rules" about running go out the window when talking about high school athletes. Hobbs Kessler ran 3:34 with a 1:49 800 and 8:39 2-mile, and only a 3:40 1500 PB coming in. Conventional wisdom says that should've been impossible - Webb himself ran 1:47 and 8:42 and his mile was noticeably slower. There are very few pros with a sub-3:35 PB who haven't also run 1:45-1:47, and the only ones who have done it also have sub-13:00 5k PBs.
So I would hesitate to put any high school athlete in a box. Crazy improvements and unusual times are pretty much the norm. If you said a year ago today that Tayvon Kitchen (a 4:11 guy) was going to run 3:41 and 3:59, you would be instantly dismissed. He had a 1:59 800 PB at this point last year, now he can do it twice. Clearly, he is still on the steep part of his improvement curve, and another 7 seconds could be possible. Josiah, meanwhile, has run 1:51 in a lowkey meet this season, and 3:57 indoors. Going under 1:50 is likely only a matter of time for him - would you not think a sub-1:50, sub-8:00 guy would have a shot at 3:53? I only knew a few guys in college who accomplished both, and all of them ran at least 3:38...putting them within spitting distance for sure.
TL;DR: not likely, but not impossible, and I'm glad they are going for it. It's an awesome record that deserves worthy challengers every year until it goes.
Kessler was capable of much better shorter distance times “going in”. Are these two?
How many years did we have only three guys running sub4 at the high school level? Now everyone but their sister is doing it. It is like they discovered a new muscle.
Jed Clampett wrote:
How many years did we have only three guys running sub4 at the high school level? Now everyone but their sister is doing it. It is like they discovered a new muscle.
I assume you meant "how many years did we have when only 3 HS guys had EVER broken 4" -- and the answer to that Q is 34 years (or 33, depending on how you count it): from 1967 (Marty Liquori, preceded by Tim Danielson in 1966 and Jim Ryun in 1964) to 2001 (Alan Webb)
Who cares this dude 19
go to college already bruh wrote:
Who cares this dude 19
Kitchen turns 19 in mid-August. He's at the older end, but he's not an outlier age wise. He was either going to be one of the youngest or one of the oldest.
Quentin Nauman, a junior has run a 1:47.5 split. Probably the only desperate race he's run to date because all others were paced and finished in a furious kick to some decent times. It'll be interesting to see if he races the likes of Kitchen and if he can hang. I dont know if it'll all add up to 3:50 but it's likely to be a donnybrook if they lock horns. Strength vs speed. Ill take speed.
