"As a running coach who frequently recommends shoes to my clients, here’s what I’d tell them regarding the Vaporfly 4: For the average runner, this isn’t the ideal choice for a marathon—or even a half marathon; its lower stack doesn’t provide the bouncy, leg-saving cushioning as most of today’s super shoes. Instead, I’d strongly suggest the more cushioned and bouncy Alphafly 3. In fact, I’d probably recommend less-experienced runners use the Alphafly 3 for short-distance races."
Yeah this made me laugh. Synopsis:
"As an average runner you should definitely be looking to circumvent your bodies natural ability to cushion itself on long runs - make sure you get the softest, squishiest shoes that in the moment feel really good, but will ultimately propagate bad running form and technique that will in the long run actually be detrimental to your body."
So I've run in a lot of shoes, from a lot of brands - the Alphafly 3 is easily my least favorite of any modern "super shoe". I could actively feel it altering my gait with all the crap between the bottom of my foot and the ground.
I see the Vape 4 dropping back in stack height and this is going to be the trend. Everything is cyclical - while I don't think we will ever get back to the days of 10mm EVA ultra-minimal flats we will probably see in 3-4 year current super shoes back down to around 18-20mm in the forefoot which will be the minimum thickness that the foams can be without completely bottoming out completely before rebounding. And in terms of foam properties what will happen is that the foams will get firmer and less dense (just add more sulphur atoms into the cross-linking process) which seems like exactly what Nike is doing here. Remember how the ZoomX on the Vaporfly NXT% OG and the 2nd version seemed to have different properties? That's because it did. Nike wanted to keep up with the trend of softer and softer shoes because this is what the "average" runner gets told they need (see above) and so they took out that awesome version of the ZoomX that the OG 4% and the first version of the NXT% had and replaced it with a softer, "deader" iteration.
Well here we are in 2025, Nike has just been shredded for moving away from being a sports performance brand and especially in running - any coincidence that their flagship race shoe is now being wound back into a firmer, lighter, less (overly and unnecessarily) cushioned model?
This will be a very good shoe.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Yeah it's pretty sad to see. These people are the reason why flats like the Sinister are dying out
Thankfully Adidas still has the Adios 9 as a low stack option with ground feel.
Don't worry, "flats" aren't going away - the industry is already turning the supertanker around on this one (metaphorically speaking).
I am hardly your typical runner, as a still semi-serious 75yr old racer. For us oldsters with less elastic connective tissue, and many average weekend warriors who have a tendency toward running injuries, the cushioning with a high stack height is a definite benefit. What is rarely discussed, but a definite performance benefit is that higher stack height effectively gives you greater leg length. 40mm is over an inch and a half. If you can maintain the same cadence in a high stack height shoe, you are going faster with a longer stride. Personally, I know that my VF Next%3s are worth at least 5 sec/mi in a 5k road race compared to my old racing flats.
Yeah it's pretty sad to see. These people are the reason why flats like the Sinister are dying out
Thankfully Adidas still has the Adios 9 as a low stack option with ground feel.
Don't worry, "flats" aren't going away - the industry is already turning the supertanker around on this one (metaphorically speaking).
I think the Next % is/was my favorite supershoe though I haven’t tried the $500 adidas shoe. It was less crazy on the stack and I raced in it in a road mile. If that’s the direction it’s a great one for Nike. The Streakfly 2 also seems like a nice direction for shorter races. Maybe this is just me as I am looking to race 1mile-5mile as opposed to marathon but away from the clunky shoes is the move.
This thread is 5 months old, but I'm curious to see what letsrunners who have bought the Vaporfly 4 think of this shoe. Plus, I'm seeing ads for the Vaporfly 4 Light Trails colorway on eBay for $174, but I don't see this price/colorway on any of the major online shoe websites.
1. What do you think of the shoe?
2. Is this colorway a legit shoe? A $100 discount seems fishy to fisky.
I have 3 pairs of zoom streaks laying around that I just can't part with because of the current trend.
looking forward to shoes working back to normalcy.
On another note, when I got back into running as an older person, I didn't understand the impact of shoes on times, and all my best races and workouts were wasted in Nike Free Runs! Including a marathon. For a long time, they were the only shoes that didn't give me shin splints. But I kept it on the crete, and now I'm strong and able to withstand any shoe!
This thread is 5 months old, but I'm curious to see what letsrunners who have bought the Vaporfly 4 think of this shoe. Plus, I'm seeing ads for the Vaporfly 4 Light Trails colorway on eBay for $174, but I don't see this price/colorway on any of the major online shoe websites.
1. What do you think of the shoe?
2. Is this colorway a legit shoe? A $100 discount seems fishy to fisky.
1. Definitely a less extreme shoe than the original Next and 2 that many people loved. To me, it feels great to run in but not very bouncy. Very lightweight, comfortable, natural ride that encourages you to keep ticking over. I like it a lot more than the 3 – which in of itself isn't a bad shoe, but imo was kind of flat, and I didn't like that the plate was so noticeable. Not the fastest super shoe and there are others I would race in before them, such as the OG Alphafly or the Puma Fast R 3s, and even the Asics Metaspeed series. I do really like them for threshold workouts though.
2. It's definitely a real colorway. FWIW, I have two pairs of the 4: one lightly used Proto pair that I got for $150, and another in the Ingebrigtsen CW for $140. I've been seeing lightly used and new pairs going for the $150 to $160 range on eBay.
This post was edited 37 seconds after it was posted.
Ran my marathon PB in Sauconys with 22m heel stack
Ran my half marathon PR in 22m heel Zoom Streak LTs a couple years back. 6’2” 170lbs. They worked! I ran probably 5 halfs in those and plenty of 5ks/10ks.
Ran my marathon PB in Sauconys with 22m heel stack
I love when people expose their idiocy like this. Because this simple question "what could I have run with a modern shoe" never crosses their mind before they post.
The other possibility is you really don't care what your PB is, and you'd rather flex how "tough" you are for running is obsolete technology. Either way the rest of us have moved on and are running faster while you still pat yourself on the back for hanging on to your Commodore 64 to post on Letsrun.
Ran my marathon PB in Sauconys with 22m heel stack
I love when people expose their idiocy like this. Because this simple question "what could I have run with a modern shoe" never crosses their mind before they post.
The other possibility is you really don't care what your PB is, and you'd rather flex how "tough" you are for running is obsolete technology. Either way the rest of us have moved on and are running faster while you still pat yourself on the back for hanging on to your Commodore 64 to post on Letsrun.
Not at all. I've run in low stack minimalist shoes for a long time(saucony freedom/kinvara with 22mm drop). With no serious injuries at all.
through to my current training shoes the Zoom fly 6 with 40mm (even recorded 42mm) stack.
They're sh#t.
I've never struggled with more injuries than ever before.
The whole super shoe/high stack thing isn't for me.
If you're 5'6 and 8 stone and spend 3 a week doing core strength etc they're probably great
But for the average 11-12 stone runner I just think they cause a myriad of knee, hip and back issues.
Each to their own. I don't think high stack supershoes cause less injury personally
They are definitely faster, but not worth the pay off imo for the average hobbyjogger
You have to be really careful where you run in VF4s. If there are appropriately sized stones/rocks around, they'll pick 'em up. As such, smooth tarmac roads/track are the only viable options
I am curious about trying to VP4 because of its lower stack height. Happy to see this trend continue as I'm not a fan of the look or feel of the higher stack shoes. However, the shoe companies have clued on to the fact they can now make and sell high stack shoes (super trainers) above the legal World Athletics limit because it will help hobby joggers PR.
Conversely, I ran a PB and 5th place in my 2nd half marathon on the weekend. I ran in the Brooks Hyperion 2, which is a GREAT lightweight non-plated shoe, feels very natural. I concede I would have ran faster in super shoes, but alas I have to draw the line somewhere on expenditure. That said, it is very satisfying beating a tonne of people in super shoes. I am shocked at how many average runners I saw in the AP3 or similar.
"A redesigned carbon fiber plate that is three degrees steeper, designed to enhance propulsion and efficiency"
anyone here with experience in both the VF4 and the Asics Metaspeed Sky? I am a 2:30's guy with a long bouncy stride, so the metaspeed sky's claim that is is for "stride style runners... directing the energy return in a vertical direction to enhance stride length when picking up the pace" appeals to me, but this line about the redesigned carbon fiber plate in the VF4 makes me think they are doing the same thing. Haven't had a chance to try either shoe on yet though. Have previously run in VF2s and OG Endorphin Pros. Liked both of them, probably the VF2s more if I had to choose.
Ran my marathon PB in Sauconys with 22m heel stack
Ran my half marathon PR in 22m heel Zoom Streak LTs a couple years back. 6’2” 170lbs. They worked! I ran probably 5 halfs in those and plenty of 5ks/10ks.
same. I raced a marathon in the streak lt 2, though I pr'd in the new balance 1400, which is still way more minimal than anything on the market today.
I think saucony's 22mm stack shoe would have been the fastwitch if low stack squad ran this race anytime in the past 15 years.
