A 50 year old friend of mine who runs actually 20:50 for the 5k and 43:35 for the 10k wants to run the following workout, because his new Garmin Forerunner 965 suggested it as Threshold Workout :
2 x 18min @ 4:10 per Km with 5min Jog Recovery
I told him this workout is not a Threshold Workout for a guy who runs his times and way to hard for him and not doable, but he doesn't believe me ...
Let's see what he get's out of it ...
His Garmin is probably using its VO2 max estimate based on his heart rate from his more recent runs. The heart monitor on his Garmin is probably inaccurate. Or it could be that he’s doing a lot of treadmill runs and his watch thinks he’s going a lot faster than he is at xxx heart rate.
I’ve always been baffled by Garmin’s suggestions. Sometimes it seems to figure out I’m doing tempo blocks on Tuesdays, then starts suggesting more or less the same workout a week later. But as of late, I’m doing 60-70mpw on 6 singles, with one day off, and 3 runs with sub-T work. So 70+ min a day on average. What does garmin suggest to me every day? 32 min base run…
Speck wrote:
His Garmin is probably using its VO2 max estimate based on his heart rate from his more recent runs. The heart monitor on his Garmin is probably inaccurate. Or it could be that he’s doing a lot of treadmill runs and his watch thinks he’s going a lot faster than he is at xxx heart rate.
Garmin's HR is pretty decent, but my watch consistently overestimates my vO2max (compared to race results) by 4-5 points. It puts me in the 60-61 range, but my races are more like 55-56. It could be age related - I'm just a bit older than OP's friend.
So his watch wants him to run 2 x 4.32k at 5k pace with 5 minutes jog recovery?
That's not a threshold workout, that's 2 races with 5 minutes of jogging between.
Please please please let us know how this workout goes
This workout is so miscalculated, i absolutely don't understand it.
His Garmin Forerunner seriously wants to let this guy run 2 times 18 minutes at his 5k Race Pace ...
Crazy.
It should get him ready for the almighty 5 x 18 workout.
Oh nevermind, that one is in miles, not minutes.
Jugglemaster wrote:
A 50 year old friend of mine who runs actually 20:50 for the 5k and 43:35 for the 10k wants to run the following workout, because his new Garmin Forerunner 965 suggested it as Threshold Workout :
2 x 18min @ 4:10 per Km with 5min Jog Recovery
I told him this workout is not a Threshold Workout for a guy who runs his times and way to hard for him and not doable, but he doesn't believe me ...
Let's see what he get's out of it ...
His Max HR is probably wrong and certainly is Lactate Threshold in the Garmin.
Both need to be set manually by the user. the watch suggests changes and you can do a automated Lactate Threshold test in a 255 and upwards.
I'll bet they're set way too high. When these are right the pacing will be adjusted into a reasonable range
Sounds like his heart rate is all over the place on their watch /garmin connect. They should look like at their max HR, threshold and watch they watch is telling them on normal runs.
It also sounds like Runna, tempo run - run 10 mins at 10 seconds per km faster then 5km pace, 5 mins at faster than easy pace, 10 mins at 10 seconds per km faster then 5km pace.
Sure it may average out, but blah that not a tempo workout
If the watch is new, then it's going to need time to accumulate data and stabilize the predictive bits. That is going to be especially true if he hasn't run any hard races/workouts, long runs, etc. with the new watch.
there is already a thread on this.
For the record, both threads suck a ssy
No one should follow a device for their training recommendations at any time. Ever.
When people ask me about the workout suggested by a device I tell them to never bring it up with me again.
You can either hire a good coach, or learn physiology and the art of coaching yourself.
Put the device down.
I saw a guy cross the finish line of an 8K yesterday in 27 minutes, I think?? He had headphones in his ears and a cell phone in his hand and was concentrating on clicking something on the phone while crossing the line.
Stupidest sh*t I have every seen.
A number of jokes about him selecting a new Spotify song at the finish.
Put that crap down and race (or as per the OP's post train).
Speck wrote:
His Garmin is probably using its VO2 max estimate based on his heart rate from his more recent runs. The heart monitor on his Garmin is probably inaccurate. Or it could be that he’s doing a lot of treadmill runs and his watch thinks he’s going a lot faster than he is at xxx heart rate.
I don’t think garmin uses treadmill runs for predictions. At least mine doesn’t seem to update vo2max and so on based on treadmill runs.
Wetcoast wrote:
No one should follow a device for their training recommendations at any time. Ever.
When people ask me about the workout suggested by a device I tell them to never bring it up with me again.
You can either hire a good coach, or learn physiology and the art of coaching yourself.
Put the device down.
I saw a guy cross the finish line of an 8K yesterday in 27 minutes, I think?? He had headphones in his ears and a cell phone in his hand and was concentrating on clicking something on the phone while crossing the line.
Stupidest sh*t I have every seen.
A number of jokes about him selecting a new Spotify song at the finish.
Put that crap down and race (or as per the OP's post train).
I was with you through a few short paragraphs, and then I realized you’re just kind of an a-hole.
Jugglemaster wrote:
A 50 year old friend of mine who runs actually 20:50 for the 5k and 43:35 for the 10k wants to run the following workout, because his new Garmin Forerunner 965 suggested it as Threshold Workout :
2 x 18min @ 4:10 per Km with 5min Jog Recovery
I told him this workout is not a Threshold Workout for a guy who runs his times and way to hard for him and not doable, but he doesn't believe me ...
Let's see what he get's out of it ...
I don't know how new his "new" watch is, but I suspect the watch's newness is a significant contributor to this obviously-inappropriate workout suggestion. I'm guessing his new watch is also serving up a wildly faster 5K race prediction than what he actually does, and that the workout suggestion is roughly consistent with the goofy race prediction.
Wetcoast wrote:
No one should follow a device for their training recommendations at any time. Ever.
Famously Alberto Salazar was holding on for dear life- or grim death to be honest- at Comrades in the early 90's whilst former winner Nic Bester was running in 2nd watching his heart rate. At the finish when Salazar got a Peachtree 'last rites' and ice bath, Bester remarked that he wished he knew that Salazar was struggling that much.
Wetcoast wrote:
When people ask me about the workout suggested by a device I tell them to never bring it up with me again.
In what kind of context does this dramatic of a response win you friends and adulation? Or are you so sensitive that you are liable to fly into a rage when someone mentions garmin suggested workouts?
lol
Recovering from heart surgery I caught a terrible virus that has taken away all my energy, can’t eat and sleep most of the day…..but my Garmin HRV says I am well rested and ready to train:-)
