When I was swimming I often swam sets with lots of shorter/faster reps (50-200m normally) with very short rest, sometimes only 10 or 15s.
Why doesn’t running do anything like this? Is it not ideal? Would it be too likely to cause injury?
When I was swimming I often swam sets with lots of shorter/faster reps (50-200m normally) with very short rest, sometimes only 10 or 15s.
Why doesn’t running do anything like this? Is it not ideal? Would it be too likely to cause injury?
Sprinters do that.
Pintudo wrote:
When I was swimming I often swam sets with lots of shorter/faster reps (50-200m normally) with very short rest, sometimes only 10 or 15s.
Why doesn’t running do anything like this? Is it not ideal? Would it be too likely to cause injury?
Different stimulus. The workout with longer rests trains muscular power and efficiency, since you're hitting the reps harder and fully rested. But it's an "easy" workout as far as your heart goes. The shorter rests make it more of a cardiovascular endurance workout.
Most training we do is a combination of those two things.
This is 1950s run training, and current swim training. In swimming it leads to world records every championship, meaning there is far more to achieve there. Running not so much.
Don't think you're proposing anything radical. Say it takes you 45s for 50m. 10-15s x2 is ~what you'll see someone do volume 400s on. You also have to factor in pace. If you're hammering 100-200m reps you'll need more rest. If you're doing them at threshold you can go off of shorter rest. That's how running works. A lot of runners training 5k & above have reps longer than a lot of the shorter swim sets.
In running you can't really do a lot of race pace off of super short rest. For a 5k maybe it's 5x1k off of 60-90s when you're in peak shape. You can't do a 3min rep off of 15s. You'd just be racing.
Swimming is also limited by breathing more than running. Running you can breath more efficiently creating a much higher intensity.
The water also limits explosive movements.
You can literally do this, but who wants their easy day to be intervals at a pace that represents the pace that corresponds to roughly 5k + 90 sec when you could just run that fast or a little slower in a steady effort and get done faster with the same stimulus?
If you're proposing only aerobic threshold training, ie marathon pace ish, then you'd be limited on mileage and your ability to recover quickly, but you would probably still get faster this way as well, your ceiling is probably just lower because your total workload won't really progress, however, you'll still probably get within 90% of your potential because most people don't train this enough.
I used to do a “workout” like this fairly often on morning runs before a tempo or interval workout in the afternoon. I’d find a grass field used for soccer or lacrosse and stride out across the field’s diagonal then recover by jogging across the edge by the goal before striding our again along the other diagonal. Each recovery jog took maybe 15-20 secs.
Yes short rest , high volumen reps is great.
I belive dan henderson trained like this, frank shorter as well. Deeks quarters are like this 8x 400m with 100m float.
If you look at norwegian training
20x400m 30' , 8xk 60' , 3x2k 90' , the rest are also short and the volume is high.
The main diffrence in swimming is that thr hearth does not go so high hence less rest is possible
Workouts like the 30/40 workout per lap make more sense to me than running a 200-400 fast, stopping for an extremely short time, then running hard again. Sprint/jog combo workouts seem to work better. Like others said, full breathing in swimming is the key to short recovery, not really a problem with running since you aren't under water.
bigboper wrote:
Sprinters do that.
I’ve never researched sprint training but I thought they mostly did long/full recovery between efforts?
TheOxy wrote:
Swimming is also limited by breathing more than running. Running you can breath more efficiently creating a much higher intensity.
The water also limits explosive movements.
That makes sense
Swimming is non-weight bearing. The injury risk is much higher with type of training for running. Most runners will get hurt before seeing any benefit.
Pintudo wrote:
When I was swimming I often swam sets with lots of shorter/faster reps (50-200m normally) with very short rest, sometimes only 10 or 15s.
Why doesn’t running do anything like this? Is it not ideal? Would it be too likely to cause injury?
Who says we don't? 25 x 400 w/30s rest counts as short (half of the work time).
Or the classic sprint the straits and jog the curves - 100m in 13-14s and jog 20s for recovery.
NERunner03533 wrote:
Don't think you're proposing anything radical. Say it takes you 45s for 50m. 10-15s x2 is ~what you'll see someone do volume 400s on. You also have to factor in pace. If you're hammering 100-200m reps you'll need more rest. If you're doing them at threshold you can go off of shorter rest. That's how running works. A lot of runners training 5k & above have reps longer than a lot of the shorter swim sets.
In running you can't really do a lot of race pace off of super short rest. For a 5k maybe it's 5x1k off of 60-90s when you're in peak shape. You can't do a 3min rep off of 15s. You'd just be racing.
60-90 seconds rest is pretty short for 5X1K and makes it closer to a tempo run. 2-3 minutes with faster 1Ks and an actual tempo run later in the week, might be better.
I'm gassed and breathing hard when swimming fast. Per my heart rate monitor, it's fairly easy to go over heart rate of 150. Running heart rates are like 125-135. Going hard is going hard. Just seems like swimming is higher in cardio and you can push hard without injury risk.
NERunner03533 wrote:
In running you can't really do a lot of race pace off of super short rest. For a 5k maybe it's 5x1k off of 60-90s when you're in peak shape. You can't do a 3min rep off of 15s. You'd just be racing.
sure but now do a reasonable workout like swimmers do. Something like 40x150m@5k pace with 15s rest. It is pretty doable. Just sort of boring.
Recovery is much faster in the water. The water is supporting most of your weight.
Think about how often swimmers have broken records (including WRs) in the morning prelims, then come back and swum even faster in the PM. Think about how often they'll swim a final, setting a record, and then come back in an hour or two and swim a final in another stroke or distance, and break another record. And these are not 10sec races but 1-5mins long.
In the water, 15sec between reps can be a pretty substantial recovery. In running, no.
I was in the pool this year alot running with my aqua jogger and noticed how short the swimmers rest is.
I know with my aqua jogger my heart rate is not quite as high. Would that be true for swimming also?
Igloi