Lex ran 3 seconds faster in high school. I’m a big fan of theirs but what is going on?? They’ve been in college long enough and have been mostly injury free the entire time. The Stanford training clearly isn’t working for them very well
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Although I do agree, I'm glad we're at least seeing them near their former high school glory - part of me wonders if they think they can go on to do better things (intelligent + disciplined + Stanford). I'm almost reminded of the Winklevoss twins from Harvard haha
Something to remember is that these guys are still only 19 years old. I distinctly remember the discourse a couple years ago about if Mike Smith was failing Nico and now we can look back and see his NCAA record(s?), him making the US Olympic team at 21 yo, etc. TLDR; development isn’t linear.
Something to remember is that these guys are still only 19 years old. I distinctly remember the discourse a couple years ago about if Mike Smith was failing Nico and now we can look back and see his NCAA record(s?), him making the US Olympic team at 21 yo, etc. TLDR; development isn’t linear.
Nico was 4th at NCAA XC his freshman year and ran like 13:11 his sophomore year IIRC. He was always going to be better than the twins, but that’s still a different world than 70th and 13:37.
Something to remember is that these guys are still only 19 years old. I distinctly remember the discourse a couple years ago about if Mike Smith was failing Nico and now we can look back and see his NCAA record(s?), him making the US Olympic team at 21 yo, etc. TLDR; development isn’t linear.
not a fair comparison. Nico is vastly better than his brothers; always has been, always will be. the twins won't progress like Nico did thru his NCAA days. no records, no sub 4 miles at altitude. i still think the twins will improve, just slower and less fanfare.
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Nico was 4th at NCAA XC his freshman year and ran like 13:11 his sophomore year IIRC. He was always going to be better than the twins, but that’s still a different world than 70th and 13:37.
I don’t want to say going to Stanford couldn’t lead to a huge jump like Nico got at NAU. Obviously Ky Robinson had huge improvements, though on Coffee Club it sounds like he came in playing other sports and not with a ton of training. That being said the Young twins had a bunch of years at Newbury Park at a college-style program, and now aren’t at altitude a la Nico or Colin Sahlman. Not sure they had Sahlmans speed or Nico’s engine and there might be less juice to squeeze but I would expect a bit more like under 13:20 and AA in XC by the end
It's interesting to see the difference in body type between Nico and the twins. Nico is built like a rail, completely narrow through the hips. The twins are stockier and shorter. They have the engine but not the body. They've already achieved so much with just that, but to be the best of the best you need both.
Lex ran 3 seconds faster in high school. I’m a big fan of theirs but what is going on?? They’ve been in college long enough and have been mostly injury free the entire time. The Stanford training clearly isn’t working for them very well
Not quite.
Leo spent a few days in the hospital Oct 2023 with appendicitis.
Lex broke his arm back in February.
Leo just set an a-t pr by 10 sec or so.
Lex set an indoor pr by about the same.
Their heat #5 was paced through 3k to hit 13:44. The pacer -- the guy from Adams State -- won the race. L&L showed they are at a fitness level that would have placed them in heat #3 or #4 where they likely would have run a bit faster.
Note: everyone from Stanford - men and women -- set prs save Sprout. And he came close.
(Bunnage set the new Australian short-track record with her 15-flat. Broke the old record by 15 seconds. Probably the Oceana indoor record as well. And the U20 record as she doesn't turn 20 until March.)
Have no idea why the men screwed up in WI a couple weeks back -- but the individual talent shown through today.
Nico was 4th at NCAA XC his freshman year and ran like 13:11 his sophomore year IIRC. He was always going to be better than the twins, but that’s still a different world than 70th and 13:37.
I don’t want to say going to Stanford couldn’t lead to a huge jump like Nico got at NAU. Obviously Ky Robinson had huge improvements, though on Coffee Club it sounds like he came in playing other sports and not with a ton of training. That being said the Young twins had a bunch of years at Newbury Park at a college-style program, and now aren’t at altitude a la Nico or Colin Sahlman. Not sure they had Sahlmans speed or Nico’s engine and there might be less juice to squeeze but I would expect a bit more like under 13:20 and AA in XC by the end
Coach Santos and Stanford can absolutely produce national champion-caliber runners. But I think it’s more a question of whether the training is compatible. The last few years have proven that it’s not for the twins. If I recall correctly they do lots of hard mile repeats and long tempos, whereas when they were in high school NP only did these kind of workouts a few times a season. It looks like they might be more suited for an NAU type system like their brother.
It's interesting to see the difference in body type between Nico and the twins. Nico is built like a rail, completely narrow through the hips. The twins are stockier and shorter. They have the engine but not the body. They've already achieved so much with just that, but to be the best of the best you need both.
Grant Fischer and Nick Symonds would like a word to go against this.
Lex ran 3 seconds faster in high school. I’m a big fan of theirs but what is going on?? They’ve been in college long enough and have been mostly injury free the entire time. The Stanford training clearly isn’t working for them very well
Not quite.
Leo spent a few days in the hospital Oct 2023 with appendicitis.
Lex broke his arm back in February.
Leo just set an a-t pr by 10 sec or so.
Lex set an indoor pr by about the same.
These were relatively minor injuries. Leo was still able to run PAC-12s and NCAA XC that year. Lex was able to train even with the arm fracture. Very minor compared to Birnbaum’s stress fracture, for instance, and he was back on their level this season.
Leo’s all time 5k PR is only slower than his brother’s because he hardly raced that distance on the track in high school. He mostly focused on the 1500m and mile.
It’s an indoor PR for Lex but BU has proven time and time again to be as fast as any outdoor track.
As far as the other Stanford runners go, I’m not disputing that Stanford can produce great runners. I just think the type of training is a mismatch for the twins.
It's interesting to see the difference in body type between Nico and the twins. Nico is built like a rail, completely narrow through the hips. The twins are stockier and shorter. They have the engine but not the body. They've already achieved so much with just that, but to be the best of the best you need both.
Yeah, it's very interesting. It's hard to tell how much of the extra weight is muscle but I suspect the twins could benefit from losing a few lbs, especially if they want to excel at the 5k and 10k. I know Leo likes the 1500m, but I think it's a little short for him, especially considering how the NCAA 1500m championship is always a jogfest. Even Colin, who has the #2 NCAA all-time mark in that event and runs a 48s 400m, has yet to figure it out. (My money is on him this year though.)
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I don’t want to say going to Stanford couldn’t lead to a huge jump like Nico got at NAU. Obviously Ky Robinson had huge improvements, though on Coffee Club it sounds like he came in playing other sports and not with a ton of training. That being said the Young twins had a bunch of years at Newbury Park at a college-style program, and now aren’t at altitude a la Nico or Colin Sahlman. Not sure they had Sahlmans speed or Nico’s engine and there might be less juice to squeeze but I would expect a bit more like under 13:20 and AA in XC by the end
Coach Santos and Stanford can absolutely produce national champion-caliber runners. But I think it’s more a question of whether the training is compatible. The last few years have proven that it’s not for the twins. If I recall correctly they do lots of hard mile repeats and long tempos, whereas when they were in high school NP only did these kind of workouts a few times a season. It looks like they might be more suited for an NAU type system like their brother.
Few years?
Really?
They're sophomores. Nearing completion of just their 4th quarter in college.
When they're seniors, then we can look back and see how they've progressed "the last few years."
And, since L&L improved on their NCAA xc placings from last year -- Leo dramatically -- and now have set prs in their first track race as sophs, what has been "proven" is their now-85-mile/wk training has made them better.
As well as being wonderful teammates and charismatic figures in the US track and field community through their Youtube channel.
As mentioned above, the twins are not clones of their older brother. Their path through college was always going to be different than Nico's. And Nico we now see is one of the greatest distance runners ever to go through the NCAA system.
So, best to have different expectations for the twins. See how they progress compared to their peers from hs.
It's interesting to see the difference in body type between Nico and the twins. Nico is built like a rail, completely narrow through the hips. The twins are stockier and shorter. They have the engine but not the body. They've already achieved so much with just that, but to be the best of the best you need both.
Grant Fischer and Nick Symonds would like a word to go against this.
Nah, Fisher still has the body of an elite runner. Symmonds is a good example of an outlier but he had crazy raw speed and was more of a mid distance runner anyways
It's interesting to see the difference in body type between Nico and the twins. Nico is built like a rail, completely narrow through the hips. The twins are stockier and shorter. They have the engine but not the body. They've already achieved so much with just that, but to be the best of the best you need both.
Simple, the twins, Lex and Leo left HS closer to their ceiling due to their training, they aren't going to improve much, it is not Stanfords fault, it is their fault. Train like a pro in HS and get fast if you have the ability but not going to go much further.
It's interesting to see the difference in body type between Nico and the twins. Nico is built like a rail, completely narrow through the hips. The twins are stockier and shorter. They have the engine but not the body. They've already achieved so much with just that, but to be the best of the best you need both.
Simple, the twins, Lex and Leo left HS closer to their ceiling due to their training, they aren't going to improve much, it is not Stanfords fault, it is their fault. Train like a pro in HS and get fast if you have the ability but not going to go much further.
Not true for Nico. Not true for Colin. Clearly upside is still there. Jury is still out on the other examples we have, namely Burns and the twins. Even Birnbaum, Hansen, and the other recent studs didn’t train quite like college athletes.
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