Sydney McLaughlin winning Track Athlete of the Year over Beatrice Chebet is absurd. Beatrice broke the 10,000m world record this year. She also defeated all time great Faith Kipyegon, who was in WR breaking form, to win the most stacked women’s 5,000m race in history. To top it off, she secured another gold in the 10,000m. Sydney McLaughlin’s achievements this year don’t come close to Beatrice’s. At best, McLaughlin was the third most impressive female track athlete, behind both Kipyegon (who reset the 1,500m WR and won her third consecutive Olympic gold) and Chebet. McLaughlin’s selection for this award frustrating. She is the most overrated athlete of our era. It’s disappointing to see athletes like Beatrice overlooked.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
And the number of cross-over talents that SML has to face is basically zero. Sydney only has to beat the other 400H women. That's it. That is about 20 women in the world. It isn't like the 100H women are jumping up in distance to take her on. The steeple women don't drop down to challenge her. The 400m women don't attempt the hurdles...
Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners. Chebet is going against thousands of people in any given season because the depth of runners who consider themselves 1500-marathon athletes is way higher than the number of elite 400H women.
And the number of cross-over talents that SML has to face is basically zero. Sydney only has to beat the other 400H women. That's it. That is about 20 women in the world. It isn't like the 100H women are jumping up in distance to take her on. The steeple women don't drop down to challenge her. The 400m women don't attempt the hurdles...
Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners. Chebet is going against thousands of people in any given season because the depth of runners who consider themselves 1500-marathon athletes is way higher than the number of elite 400H women.
Are you not aware that Sydney defeated Gabby Thomas in a 200m race this year?
And the number of cross-over talents that SML has to face is basically zero. Sydney only has to beat the other 400H women. That's it. That is about 20 women in the world. It isn't like the 100H women are jumping up in distance to take her on. The steeple women don't drop down to challenge her. The 400m women don't attempt the hurdles...
Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners. Chebet is going against thousands of people in any given season because the depth of runners who consider themselves 1500-marathon athletes is way higher than the number of elite 400H women.
Are you not aware that Sydney defeated Gabby Thomas in a 200m race this year?
When did Chebet face Ruth Chepngetich this year?
Let's see... Chebet beat World Athlete of the Year, Hassan twice. She beat the 1500 GOAT Kipyegon. She crushed Ngetich in XC, who set the world 10 km record this year and has the 2nd fast half in history.
The awards in conjunction with each other make no sense. If Hassan is the world athlete of the year then seemingly Chebet should earn credit for easily defeating her twice en route to gold medals. And that doesn't even factor the presence of Kipyegon in the 5000. It was Kipyegon's first major defeat since 2015 when she was fully fit. The 2019 loss to Hassan in the Doha 1500 was Kipyegon off maternity leave.
World Athletics didn't fear shunning Chebet. That's what it comes down to. She didn't have the public name recognition or overwhelming resume entering 2024.
Besides, these are banquets. That should never be overlooked. They pick the ones who will look best standing up there in a fancy gown or suit. And I'm convinced they helped Hassan with her selection. In 2021 she won huge awards and was doing remote taped thank you messages while wearing sweats and half asleep on an unmade bed.
Are you not aware that Sydney defeated Gabby Thomas in a 200m race this year?
When did Chebet face Ruth Chepngetich this year?
Let's see... Chebet beat World Athlete of the Year, Hassan twice. She beat the 1500 GOAT Kipyegon. She crushed Ngetich in XC, who set the world 10 km record this year and has the 2nd fast half in history.
Who else do you want her to race?
Ruxton Towers XC stated, “Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners.” Ruxton put the emphasis on “every”. I’m simply asking when did Chebet face the marathon world record holder this year. I don’t recall them racing this year, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Remember, XC accomplishments don’t count for the track AOY award. I think Chebet should have won the overall AOY award because the combination of her track and out of stadium performances throughout the year were clearly the best. She got robbed for overall AOY.
But track AOY goes to Sydney, deservedly so.
2 world records are better than 1.
An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships.
Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2.
The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09.
Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04.
Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m.
Let's see... Chebet beat World Athlete of the Year, Hassan twice. She beat the 1500 GOAT Kipyegon. She crushed Ngetich in XC, who set the world 10 km record this year and has the 2nd fast half in history.
Who else do you want her to race?
Ruxton Towers XC stated, “Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners.” Ruxton put the emphasis on “every”. I’m simply asking when did Chebet face the marathon world record holder this year. I don’t recall them racing this year, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Remember, XC accomplishments don’t count for the track AOY award. I think Chebet should have won the overall AOY award because the combination of her track and out of stadium performances throughout the year were clearly the best. She got robbed for overall AOY.
But track AOY goes to Sydney, deservedly so.
2 world records are better than 1.
An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships.
Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2.
The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09.
Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04.
Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m.
"2 world records are better than 1" Who set 2 world records this year? I'm confused by this point.
"An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships."
Is this a joke? The "national championships" were about qualification, not racing. This point is completely worthless in the track AOY debate. "
"Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2" Who cares how many events someone qualifies in? It's about what the person actually races. Chebet won two individual golds and Sydney only won one. And in any case, Chebet could have easily qualified for the 1500 based on her finish in the 5000. She was very easily in sub 3:52 shape. What's more, aren't you including relays in the "4" number you threw out? Again, worthless point.
"The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09." The points table doesn't factor in overall competitiveness of an event. However, this is the only defensible point you brought up.
"Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04." Nope, closing a 14:28 5k with 2:33.5 last 1k and 57.5 last lap to beat a fully in shape GOAT Kipyegon is comically more impressive than beating Femke and... I actually can't even remember the name of who came in second. Speaks for itself.
"Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m." See above.
Hope this helps you see why Chebet was absurdly more deserving than SML of AOY.
Ruxton Towers XC stated, “Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners.” Ruxton put the emphasis on “every”. I’m simply asking when did Chebet face the marathon world record holder this year. I don’t recall them racing this year, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Remember, XC accomplishments don’t count for the track AOY award. I think Chebet should have won the overall AOY award because the combination of her track and out of stadium performances throughout the year were clearly the best. She got robbed for overall AOY.
But track AOY goes to Sydney, deservedly so.
2 world records are better than 1.
An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships.
Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2.
The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09.
Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04.
Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m.
"2 world records are better than 1" Who set 2 world records this year? I'm confused by this point.
"An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships."
Is this a joke? The "national championships" were about qualification, not racing. This point is completely worthless in the track AOY debate. "
"Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2" Who cares how many events someone qualifies in? It's about what the person actually races. Chebet won two individual golds and Sydney only won one. And in any case, Chebet could have easily qualified for the 1500 based on her finish in the 5000. She was very easily in sub 3:52 shape. What's more, aren't you including relays in the "4" number you threw out? Again, worthless point.
"The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09." The points table doesn't factor in overall competitiveness of an event. However, this is the only defensible point you brought up.
"Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04." Nope, closing a 14:28 5k with 2:33.5 last 1k and 57.5 last lap to beat a fully in shape GOAT Kipyegon is comically more impressive than beating Femke and... I actually can't even remember the name of who came in second. Speaks for itself.
"Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m." See above.
Hope this helps you see why Chebet was absurdly more deserving than SML of AOY.
Can't edit this post for some reason but I just want to emphasize how absurd Chebet's 5000m finish was. The race was essentially a progression run where every 1k was faster than the last. The first 2k were more or less at 15 minute 5k pace. The last 3k was 8:24 (14 min flat 5k pace). However the reason the last 3k was so fast is mostly because of the last 1k to 1500. Chebet's last 1k of 2:33.5 is the fastest last km in the history of the event, as far as I know. And this was in the context of a 8:24 3k, which makes it even more absurd and a 57.5 last lap, indicating she could have run the last 3k and 1k even faster with a more even pace. She ran what was essentially a tactical 3k race against 1500m world record holder Kipyegon (3:49.04 shape) and defeated her easily by over a second. This performance was absolutely mind bogglingly good and probably the best 5000m RACE performance of all time by a woman.
Ruxton Towers XC stated, “Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners.” Ruxton put the emphasis on “every”. I’m simply asking when did Chebet face the marathon world record holder this year. I don’t recall them racing this year, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
You are not wrong. That was my mistake in how I expressed that. I meant to say that every distance runner has the option to race the 5000m or 10000m if they felt it was in their best interests. Only a few people run the 400H and you can't just "decide to race it" if you are a 400m or 800m runner (or even a 100H woman).
The best 1500-5000m runners in the world make a choice to go with the one or both of those events. This is literally thousands of women who are vying for a spot in the Olympics in those two events.
The best 10,000m-Marathoners in the world make the same calculation. Half (or more) of them end up racing the 10. Some marathoners double, some drop down. It depends on where they think they'll be most successful.
So my point was that the depth (in numbers) is much, much higher for distance runners because millions of people are contesting these events, thousands are elite, and there is a good chance that all distance runners eventually race the 5 or the 10, Chebet's events.
This post was edited 40 seconds after it was posted.
Ruxton Towers XC stated, “Chebet has to race every distance runner in the world from the best 1500m runners to the best marathoners.” Ruxton put the emphasis on “every”. I’m simply asking when did Chebet face the marathon world record holder this year. I don’t recall them racing this year, but please correct me if I’m wrong.
Remember, XC accomplishments don’t count for the track AOY award. I think Chebet should have won the overall AOY award because the combination of her track and out of stadium performances throughout the year were clearly the best. She got robbed for overall AOY.
But track AOY goes to Sydney, deservedly so.
2 world records are better than 1.
An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships.
Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2.
The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09.
Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04.
Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m.
"2 world records are better than 1" Who set 2 world records this year? I'm confused by this point.
"An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships."
Is this a joke? The "national championships" were about qualification, not racing. This point is completely worthless in the track AOY debate. "
"Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2" Who cares how many events someone qualifies in? It's about what the person actually races. Chebet won two individual golds and Sydney only won one. And in any case, Chebet could have easily qualified for the 1500 based on her finish in the 5000. She was very easily in sub 3:52 shape. What's more, aren't you including relays in the "4" number you threw out? Again, worthless point.
"The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09." The points table doesn't factor in overall competitiveness of an event. However, this is the only defensible point you brought up.
"Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04." Nope, closing a 14:28 5k with 2:33.5 last 1k and 57.5 last lap to beat a fully in shape GOAT Kipyegon is comically more impressive than beating Femke and... I actually can't even remember the name of who came in second. Speaks for itself.
"Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m." See above.
Hope this helps you see why Chebet was absurdly more deserving than SML of AOY.
All I'm seeing from you and others in this thread is a bias in favor of distance runners, and maybe (for some, not all) a bias against Sydney specifically.
I should have used better wording for my point re: two world records. A better way of saying it is: Breaking a world record twice is better than breaking a world record once. Remember, Sydney first broke her own world record at the US Trials, then broke it again at the Olympics.
No, the national championships point is not a joke. When evaluating AOY, we need to look at everything an athlete did that year. The fact is Chebet lost a race this year, and Sydney didn't.
My point about Sydney running qualifying times in 4 Olympic events is relevant because it shows her versatility and all-around excellence displayed throughout the year. Think about how many high-quality runners struggle to hit the Olympic standard in just one event. Sydney did it in four: the 400m hurdles, the 100m hurdles, the 200, and the 400. Your point about what Chebet might have been able to do in the 1500 is irrelevant. AOY awards aren't about what we think athletes can do; they are about what athletes actually did. As far as I know, Sydney is the only track athlete in the world this year who ran qualifying times in 4 Olympic track events.
Yes, Sydney's margin of victory in the Olympic 400m hurdles is even better than what Chebet did. That's not to say that what Chebet did in that Olympic 5,000m wasn't special. It absolutely was. I was stunned watching it. But Sydney's margin of victory was better. Athletes are not supposed to win Olympic sprint races by 1.5. It's mind-boggling. Sydney so utterly destroyed the second-best 400m hurdler of all time that she left her in tears. Like it or not, a 1.5 margin of victory is objectively better than a 1.04 margin of victory. Speaks for itself.
I don't understand your "see above" comment re: my point that Sydney running the fastest relay split in over 40 years is better than Chebet winning a tactical 10,000m race.
You are on to something. I admit that. I am biased against the niche events because so few people really train to the highest level and compete in them.
There are more kids worldwide training to be good at soccer than there are at curling. So the best soccer player has a harder time reaching the top.
The same is true inside our sport. There are more people training to be 100m runners than there are to be hammer throwers. That is just a fact.
But yes, this is why I am so biased towards the major events (100m, 1500m, 5000m).
I am also biased against athletes who don't race much, so I don't really "like" Sydney even though she is amazing at running.
"2 world records are better than 1" Who set 2 world records this year? I'm confused by this point.
"An undefeated year is better than the year of someone who lost in their national championships."
Is this a joke? The "national championships" were about qualification, not racing. This point is completely worthless in the track AOY debate. "
"Running Olympic qualifying times in 4 events is better than running qualifying times in 2" Who cares how many events someone qualifies in? It's about what the person actually races. Chebet won two individual golds and Sydney only won one. And in any case, Chebet could have easily qualified for the 1500 based on her finish in the 5000. She was very easily in sub 3:52 shape. What's more, aren't you including relays in the "4" number you threw out? Again, worthless point.
"The World Athletics point total for 50.37 and 48.75 is better than the point total for 28:54 and 14:09." The points table doesn't factor in overall competitiveness of an event. However, this is the only defensible point you brought up.
"Winning an Olympic sprint race by 1.5 is better than winning an Olympic 5,000m race by 1.04." Nope, closing a 14:28 5k with 2:33.5 last 1k and 57.5 last lap to beat a fully in shape GOAT Kipyegon is comically more impressive than beating Femke and... I actually can't even remember the name of who came in second. Speaks for itself.
"Running the fastest 4x400m relay split in over 40 years is better than outkicking Nadia Battocletti in a tactical 10,000m." See above.
Hope this helps you see why Chebet was absurdly more deserving than SML of AOY.
All I'm seeing from you and others in this thread is a bias in favor of distance runners, and maybe (for some, not all) a bias against Sydney specifically.
I should have used better wording for my point re: two world records. A better way of saying it is: Breaking a world record twice is better than breaking a world record once. Remember, Sydney first broke her own world record at the US Trials, then broke it again at the Olympics.
No, the national championships point is not a joke. When evaluating AOY, we need to look at everything an athlete did that year. The fact is Chebet lost a race this year, and Sydney didn't.
My point about Sydney running qualifying times in 4 Olympic events is relevant because it shows her versatility and all-around excellence displayed throughout the year. Think about how many high-quality runners struggle to hit the Olympic standard in just one event. Sydney did it in four: the 400m hurdles, the 100m hurdles, the 200, and the 400. Your point about what Chebet might have been able to do in the 1500 is irrelevant. AOY awards aren't about what we think athletes can do; they are about what athletes actually did. As far as I know, Sydney is the only track athlete in the world this year who ran qualifying times in 4 Olympic track events.
Yes, Sydney's margin of victory in the Olympic 400m hurdles is even better than what Chebet did. That's not to say that what Chebet did in that Olympic 5,000m wasn't special. It absolutely was. I was stunned watching it. But Sydney's margin of victory was better. Athletes are not supposed to win Olympic sprint races by 1.5. It's mind-boggling. Sydney so utterly destroyed the second-best 400m hurdler of all time that she left her in tears. Like it or not, a 1.5 margin of victory is objectively better than a 1.04 margin of victory. Speaks for itself.
I don't understand your "see above" comment re: my point that Sydney running the fastest relay split in over 40 years is better than Chebet winning a tactical 10,000m race.
Kenyan Trials 5k was not an important race for Beatrice to win and she didn't try to win it. The real race between her an Kipyegon happened at the Olympics and Chebet won. This race truly does not matter at all in regards to AOY discussion. It would be like trying to diminish Kipyegon's 2023 5k victory because she came in 2nd in the prelim to Hassan. Very, very few people would agree with your line of reasoning here.
And I agree, what an athlete actually DOES is more impressive than what they COULD do. Syndey could have run in 4 events, but she didn't. Qualifications just don't matter when you're talking about AOY. Her qualification are impressive when comparing her performance this year to that of an "average" elite athlete, but not the best of the best. We have to look at what athletes actually *did".
SML's margin of victory was less impressive based on competition and context.
Her win was due to bias against distance athletes and for sprinters. It wasn't based on merit.
Can't edit this post for some reason but I just want to emphasize how absurd Chebet's 5000m finish was. The race was essentially a progression run where every 1k was faster than the last. The first 2k were more or less at 15 minute 5k pace. The last 3k was 8:24 (14 min flat 5k pace). However the reason the last 3k was so fast is mostly because of the last 1k to 1500. Chebet's last 1k of 2:33.5 is the fastest last km in the history of the event, as far as I know. And this was in the context of a 8:24 3k, which makes it even more absurd and a 57.5 last lap, indicating she could have run the last 3k and 1k even faster with a more even pace. She ran what was essentially a tactical 3k race against 1500m world record holder Kipyegon (3:49.04 shape) and defeated her easily by over a second. This performance was absolutely mind bogglingly good and probably the best 5000m RACE performance of all time by a woman.
There's no questioning that Chebet's 5,000m victory was phenomenal. I just don't think you appreciate how even more phenomenal 50.37 is. I wonder if people have just gotten so used to Sydney being amazing that they aren't as amazed by what she does anymore. It's similar to the MVP voter fatigue we've seen with NBA stars who dominate every year. But make no mistake: just because this year wasn't the first year that Sydney blew away all her competitors, that doesn't make her 2024 accomplishments any less worthy of recognition.
When Sydney ran 50.68 at the world championships in Eugene, it was a jaw-dropping performance that was difficult to fathom. It was a time that would have placed her 7th in the flat 400! There was a thread earlier this year when noted LRC track historian John Wesley Harding questioned if she could ever run faster. And yet she did. Twice!
Sydney was already the 400m hurdles GOAT before this year. She had reached a level that was beyond other hurdlers' wildest dreams. And yet, somehow, this year she took it to an even higher level. She is the track AOY.
Can't edit this post for some reason but I just want to emphasize how absurd Chebet's 5000m finish was. The race was essentially a progression run where every 1k was faster than the last. The first 2k were more or less at 15 minute 5k pace. The last 3k was 8:24 (14 min flat 5k pace). However the reason the last 3k was so fast is mostly because of the last 1k to 1500. Chebet's last 1k of 2:33.5 is the fastest last km in the history of the event, as far as I know. And this was in the context of a 8:24 3k, which makes it even more absurd and a 57.5 last lap, indicating she could have run the last 3k and 1k even faster with a more even pace. She ran what was essentially a tactical 3k race against 1500m world record holder Kipyegon (3:49.04 shape) and defeated her easily by over a second. This performance was absolutely mind bogglingly good and probably the best 5000m RACE performance of all time by a woman.
There's no questioning that Chebet's 5,000m victory was phenomenal. I just don't think you appreciate how even more phenomenal 50.37 is. I wonder if people have just gotten so used to Sydney being amazing that they aren't as amazed by what she does anymore. It's similar to the MVP voter fatigue we've seen with NBA stars who dominate every year. But make no mistake: just because this year wasn't the first year that Sydney blew away all her competitors, that doesn't make her 2024 accomplishments any less worthy of recognition.
When Sydney ran 50.68 at the world championships in Eugene, it was a jaw-dropping performance that was difficult to fathom. It was a time that would have placed her 7th in the flat 400! There was a thread earlier this year when noted LRC track historian John Wesley Harding questioned if she could ever run faster. And yet she did. Twice!
Sydney was already the 400m hurdles GOAT before this year. She had reached a level that was beyond other hurdlers' wildest dreams. And yet, somehow, this year she took it to an even higher level. She is the track AOY.
I can only assume that you're a hurdler. Paulino's time was more impressive than Syndey's. Paulino just competes in a comically deeper event. Syndey is incredible, but she isn't what she's hyped up to be, imo.