I do reps around threshold pace and am fine doing them, but if I attempt to do reps at 5k or 10k pace, my race times don't improve (and I am exhausted after the workout). What's the deal with that? Is my base not big enough? I see others doing hard km repeats and doing well but it just doesn't work for me.
Everyone is different.
So do HM or MP intervals, no problem.
Continue doing threshold, solid mileage, strides, short hills and 200s. That’s all you need. Race frequently. Have fun.
This thread was posted a few days/couple weeks ago. My answer hasn't really changed since then. In that thread we learned the pace you run your reps at is too fast for you. Its really as simple as training at the right pace.
Shorter reps can help too. Instead of starting with a workout like K’s @ 5k pace, try starting with 400s @ 5k pace, then 600s, then K’s.
Don’t force the pace or shorten the rest either. Nobody ever won a medal from doing 8xK.
Join the club.
I came to this realisation after plateauing for over a year. Now, I only do 1 or 2 vo2 max workouts in the last few weeks before a goal race (between 3k-10k). After that I seem to stagnate.
It's a pretty common thing to see though. There's a huge group where I live that does a vo2 max workout, faster intervals (800m-1500m pace) and then a race almost every week. No one in that group ever really improves though; yet they continue to slog themselves week in, week out.
Do what works for you. If you don't improve under a certain training system, then do something different.
Stop doing v02 max reps. If you want to work on raw speed, do 30second hill reps and/or 200m/100m sprints on the track.
Most of your fitness will come from the threshold intervals, just stack threshold.
5 x 1k at 5k pace, 12 x 400m at 5k pace are not good workouts for gaining fitness, they are good workouts for indicating current fitness.
Confused123 wrote:
I do reps around threshold pace and am fine doing them, but if I attempt to do reps at 5k or 10k pace, my race times don't improve (and I am exhausted after the workout). What's the deal with that? Is my base not big enough? I see others doing hard km repeats and doing well but it just doesn't work for me.
This'll sound like it's coming out of left field, but do you know your blood type, and if so what is it?
Confused123 wrote:
I do reps around threshold pace and am fine doing them, but if I attempt to do reps at 5k or 10k pace, my race times don't improve (and I am exhausted after the workout). What's the deal with that? Is my base not big enough? I see others doing hard km repeats and doing well but it just doesn't work for me.
Training is stress to the body. Intense training is a high level of stress. You can go too hard as well as too much, or too often.
Some people just don’t deal with stress well. I’m like you. I don’t. I’ve learned through trial and error to back off, as you have also. Don’t be like me ( in the past) and think that you can battle through it. You’ve learned where your level is, stick to it.
There are just those who can deal with higher levels of stress and even prosper. We obviously aren’t one of them.
I've been aboard the threshold train for over a decade, but I disagree with those who say race pace workouts don't improve fitness. Your specific biology might change the way your body responds to workouts, but "5k pace workouts don't improve fitness" is incorrect.
The workouts themselves are only one factor. The specific workouts that you're doing might be too hard for you in the context of the other training you are doing. There are several factors you can change:
The total volume of the workout
The pace of the intervals
The rest between intervals
Mileage on easy days
Pace on easy days
Days between workouts
You don't say what specific workouts you're doing. If you're running 6x1k at 5k w/ 1 min rest--yes, that's going to be too hard for a lot of people. Change it to 2x1200 threshold w/ 1 min + 4x1k at 5k w/ 2:30 rest and you'll get a lot of benefit without digging a hole.
Also think about those other factors. Most of the best runners I've coached intuitively slow down their pace when they're tired. For example, I coached a girl who could do long runs under 7 min/mile average but would run close to 10 mins the day after a race or challenging workout. A lot of perpetually burned out runners just do the same pace every day.
Confused123 wrote:
I do reps around threshold pace and am fine doing them, but if I attempt to do reps at 5k or 10k pace, my race times don't improve (and I am exhausted after the workout). What's the deal with that? Is my base not big enough? I see others doing hard km repeats and doing well but it just doesn't work for me.
i'd take a small break, get out of debt physically.
then continue, and just back off on the number of reps, so you are pleasantly tired after,
the aim is always
stress the body
recover and the body adapts to the stress, ie improve
repeat
if you don't improve, you did not recover and adapt
everyone fails on this sometimes
but successful ones get it right most of the time
and burn outs get it wrong most of the time.
You have just learnt that you are more slow twitch and fast twitch and therefore you take far longer to recover. Longer slower reps will benefit you as you have already found out.
this means you could increase your quality sessions to three (from two) every 6 or 7 days
Look up the thread Norwegian singles method.