is D2 a better environment than D1 for track and field and cross country?

With all the nil/roster limit stuff going on it sounds like it. Problem is most d2s have lousy academics. For the above average not all state type, best is probably d3 with an academic scholarship. NAIA is about even with d2.

For over a decade now a lot of the better funded DII schools have been better programs than the bottom 60% of DI schools.

I coached at a mid major DI and we had probably the same or less resources than the majority of DII schools but we had to compete against the Power 5 every week.

Grand Valley state has a better budget and facilitates compared to most DI programs.

The roster limits for DI are going to have athletes trickle down but don’t think DII is safe yet. The whole NCAA operation is about to crumble

Yes. You described it well.

No one claims that D2 academics are Stanford or big state flagship university level, but is an accounting degree from Chico State or an engineering diploma from Colorado Mines an impediment to gainful employment? Sure, their social network isn’t as large but future success is up to the individual.

I graduated from a small D2 and retired at 55 after three decades in the athletic footwear industry. My classmate is a VP at Amazon. There are marginally employed former D1 studs working in retail stores and Ivy grads pulling less than $60K as high school teachers/coaches. Education and opportunity are what you make of them.

D2 schools are mostly regional state schools that draw the majority of their students from the local population. These regional state schools are occasionally D3 like in Wisconsin or the SUNY programs in NY. These schools aren't intended to be groundbreaking academic schools but rather schools that are more accessible to a wider population of students. If a good/not great runner doesn't know exactly what they want to study it might be a less expensive way to get through all the intro classes and requirements while giving it a shot at developing as a runner then transfer into a P4 school that you actually graduate from. Similar to how a non-athlete might do a year at community college.

Just looking at the rankings in D2, it might be a decent path for a lot of those walk on types that Wetmore used to have. A standout after two years at Western Colorado or CSU Pueblo would easily be able to transfer all academic credits to CU or CSU and Sean Carlson or Kelly Hart could bring in some low risk recruits. Some collaboration between programs in some states could certainly give athletes options.

As a male, yes, because let’s face it, unless you are a sub-4 prodigy in HS, willing to go to somewhere like BYU for 7 years, or already a world-class African or European, you will be running 110+ miles per week wasting the best years of your life and still may never crack the A team.

Run D2 or D3 and have the best of both worlds. Very few will go pro in this sport. Enjoy college, focus on your education, and have fun running in a much lower key environment.

It amazes me how much credit D3 gets over D2 and NAIA when it comes to acedemics. The importance of where your degree comes from is the biggest con in higher education. These schools want you to believe that they have something academically that other schools do not. That is sometimes true in certain degree programs but very rarely true with a school in general. I get the benefit of the Ivies, being the connections you make with future bigwigs but the education is not much better. The large public universities are terrible options for most people. Most people do not learn well with 300 of their closest friends in class with them. I know countless examples of former teammates and classmates that went to a small NAIA school, that were TA's at large state schools and the juniors and seniors struggled with content they were exposed to as freshmen and sophmores. This was because of class sizes of 10-30 people. On top of the fact that most small schools have actual teaching faculty vs Prof's doing research all day and some TA teaching the class.

Getting a degree, from anywhere, simply moves your name to a different pile of resume's. The school you choose is less important than how you use the opportunity you are given.

Plus D3 is freaking expensive. they probably contribute more to overall student debt than any division.

The data is there for you to view. I guess an extra million dollars of earning doesn't matter to you.

D1 or D3 are best.

Real D1: Stanford, Duke, Northwestern (though no men's running and only women's xc)

"Fake" D1: Ivies (no athletic $)

D3: MIT, UChicago, Caltech, Williams, Amherst, Hopkins, etc

And to the people who downvote this: using Colorado mines as the one example of a D2 without terrible academics doesn't strengthen your point.

D3's academic edge is really concentrated in 15-20 top schools. Largely NESCAC, SCIAC MIT, JH, Haverford, Carleton, etc. There are 400+ DIII schools and 80-90% of them are average to below average academically.

Lots of D2 schools were JUCOs just a few decades ago. With the type of discretionary state spending they get and basically nil private endowment, they kept that level of academics while adding an extra two years of coursework.

inaccurate. not even close. the average SAT is 1050. you could probably go 100+ deep national LAC, plus the UWs, SUNYs, and UC Santa Cruz, plus MIT, Caltech and the other smaller engineering schools, etc., all over that average. that's not just NESCAC and UAA, that's liberty league, SCIAC, midwest conference, northwest conferences, SCAC, SAA, NEWMAC, etc. etc. where is that in D2 or NAIA? you might occasionally find "a" school even that good. we have whole conferences above average.

and, that's not even getting into the goodie bag list you mentioned like outliers. which barely any besides mines exist up there in D2. we might be competing with the ivies and stanford and such, but we have 1 or 2 dozen pretty high level. and that's really a D1 vs. D3 debate, not a D2 one. start listing NESCAC or pomona/claremont or MIT or caltech or JH equivalents in D2 and that list ends a lot faster.

and i'm not going to lie, we have some conferences with 900 or 1000 type kids at anonymous schools. but to me that's the vast majority of D2 and NAIA is small schools you've never heard of that accept about anyone.

what i see happening is the kid who wasn't sure he wanted to do the academic side of college, maybe barely gets in, but marginal D1 talent, goes D2 or NAIA. the kid who wants academics but was marginal D1 walkon at some name brand school, goes D3 or becomes a student. basically like what already happens when a D1 walkon wisher gets told no. the smart ones go prestige academics. the ones just there for sports and to party, hoping they finish, will slide to the next scholarship division.

if you have some snap and drive and want an elite grad degree or professional school, school quality is an investment, and the ROI on any debt will work out. if you want "to be in college" or "to play college sports" and to get "a" degree, yeah, you should probably keep your costs down and the availability of sports scholarships helps. horses for courses.

re LACs, they are usually all small but you need to watch whether it's run more like a competitive boarding school, on a star system -- very eager for future MDs, lawyers, sports stars, but not so much the average kid paying a lot -- or like a small montessori, where they are sincere about individual attention for everyone.

Aside from a few very good academic schools no one really cares where your degree is from. Most colleges regardless of division have become basically degree mills aside from programs like STEM, nursing, etc.

As far as competing goes it took sub 14, right around 29:00, sub 8:50 steeple, and sub 1:49 800 to qualify for outdoor nationals in D2.

In XC it took 30:20 ish to be All-American (which varies quite a bit year to year based on course, weather, etc.)

I think if more high schoolers were completely honest with themselves they would compete and develop better at the D2 level. The experience is a bit different depending on the school, but are you there to try and run fast or post a commitment pictures and media day pictures?

I know of a lot of kids at the D1 level who are either in the injury cycle or are so far down the depth chart they only get to race a few times per year despite training hard.

There are over 5000+ Colleges and Universities in the United States. I think Forbes provides a good ranking system of schools. They recently ranked the top 500. I am curious how many D2 schools are in the top 500 compared to D3.

forbes.com

Forbes America's Top Colleges List 2025 - Best US Universities Ranked

Search the Forbes 2024-2025 list of America's Top Colleges, ranking the best universities in the US based on student academic, career and financial success.

Open link

I agree with much of what you stated. However the Ivies are not the only schools that help with networking and job recruitment. If you want to be recruited and work in a particular area of the country it might make sense to go to a school in that area.

I didn't realize D3 schools are expensive. Most of the cheaper public colleges in NY are D3 as are the satellite campuses of our surrounding states.

MIT, Johns Hopkins, and NYU are on the East Coast. They cost $90K per year.

#1 How many of these schools have a good running program (a lot of top D3 do, but not all)

#2 Most schools on that list I would imagine have an acceptance rate under 20%. No way the average 3.5 GPA or even 4.0 student would make it in.

#3 Even IF you were accepted, these schools cost upwards of 80k, and who knows how much aid you could get.