Double threshold alone does not make you a good miler. Jakob does 20x200m hills every week during the base phase. if you remove that element he wouldn’t be nearly as good of a miler.
because threshold work allows you to run a higher percentage of your max speed without tipping over into the anaerobic threshold. thats why even *most* 800m runners do some sort of threshold work.
Hell a lot of 400m runners do some sort of extensive tempo work... but the amount of gains that comes from relaxed intervals increases as the event distance increases. Hence why milers get a lot of bang for their buck doing threshold work.
what you say is true but what a lot of young runners are doing, specially the ones who are in college, is overemphasizing the Threshold work while neglecting their foot speed. Running is metabolic and muscular. You also have to stimulate the fast twitch fibers via short alactic sprints, hill sprints and strides all year around.
what you say is true but what a lot of young runners are doing, specially the ones who are in college, is overemphasizing the Threshold work while neglecting their foot speed. Running is metabolic and muscular. You also have to stimulate the fast twitch fibers via short alactic sprints, hill sprints and strides all year around.
sure but why is everyone acting like this thread is insinuating an absence of speed work?
Aren’t there countless great runners from the past that didn’t run double threshold workouts? What about El Guerrouj?
El Guerrouj was doing threshold basically everyday.
His morning "aerobic endurance" runs were typically 30 mins between 2:50-3:10/km.
Marius Bakken tried to do this, but found that it didn't work for him, so he adjusted the model (the Norwegian model) to cluster the threshold workouts into one day, then have a recovery day after. He found that this worked better.
Aerobic endurance. He does four types of work: 30-45 min of continuous running 50-60 min of continuous running. For this type of work there are not precise conditions, he is not asked any specific pace, however. He is demanded that he runs at his maximum at that moment, this varies from one day to another and has nothing to do with the season. So, this means that El Guerrouj can run one day between 3:00-3:10/km pace and sometimes at 2:50/km. 4 x 2000m in 5:10 with 2 min recovery 6 x 1000m in 2:30 with 2 min recovery The distances of the repetitions have been standardized because his coach considers it important to set a "work rhythm" with high intensity (around 70% for him). For this reason, when El Guerrouj can not finish a certain training session, he repeats the workout the following day, instead of seeking a different solution
Ma's army was reported to run HM pace often too = threshold pace. And Kenyans with daily progression runs. It's funny that the average human can only handle threshold every other day at best while these groups can handle it daily.
What people call threshold is so elastic as to be useless, and it is very rare that they are actually doing any workouts close to the low end of threshold. For younger kids especially, they are probably doing at least probably doing mile pace or better on reps of 200-400m and probably doing more like 3k-5k pace on mile repeats. Their endurance is very much on the weaker side typically.
But even if you are talking about top pros, their only work on the lower end of threshold is probably their easy runs. El G's 2:30 1k's were not threshold pace unless you have a very different definition of threshold. If you define it as 68% of VO2 max, which we'll call 8 minute pace (for Jakob, call that 3:57/M or just about 2:26/1k, for El G, it would have been 3:59 or a touch faster). Then 68% of 6.8 m/s is 4.6 m/s or 3:34/1k. 2:50 per kilometer is 86% of 2:26/k. Since El G's continuous runs were between 2:50 and 3:10, they were approximately in the mid to high threshold zone, which can be in the 70s and low to mid 80s. But there's a huge difference between 68% and 86% runs. El G's 1k's were at VO2 max pace or a shade under.
Jakob's 62s (a shade under 4:10/M) are 95% of VO2 max pace (3:57/M). Of course, that's not jogging. But is it "threshold" or something like different? If threshold is defined not in terms of percentages but time, 40 to 60 minutes, and he's running 62s, he's going faster than 10k world record pace by a good deal, about 25:53 10000m pace. He's going about 6-8k pace, only a second a lap slower than his current 5000m pr. In fact, he's trying to keep his Lactic acid under 4. To mimic his workouts without a proper lactic measure and competence to use it (for a laugh, see how Katir and his "translator" did it at the high altitude camp from sweat elite's video), you'd have to be running more like 6-8k pace.
Jakob's 62s (a shade under 4:10/M) are 95% of VO2 max pace (3:57/M). Of course, that's not jogging. But is it "threshold" or something like different? If threshold is defined not in terms of percentages but time, 40 to 60 minutes, and he's running 62s, he's going faster than 10k world record pace by a good deal, about 25:53 10000m pace. He's going about 6-8k pace, only a second a lap slower than his current 5000m pr. In fact, he's trying to keep his Lactic acid under 4. To mimic his workouts without a proper lactic measure and competence to use it (for a laugh, see how Katir and his "translator" did it at the high altitude camp from sweat elite's video), you'd have to be running more like 6-8k pace.
Threshold is not a pace, it's a physiological process in the body.
The Norwegians define threshold by lactate, which is a much better proxy for this process.
Therefore, this definition is a far more appropriate use of the term "threshold" than "1 hour pace".
Jakob's 62s (a shade under 4:10/M) are 95% of VO2 max pace (3:57/M). Of course, that's not jogging. But is it "threshold" or something like different? If threshold is defined not in terms of percentages but time, 40 to 60 minutes, and he's running 62s, he's going faster than 10k world record pace by a good deal, about 25:53 10000m pace. He's going about 6-8k pace, only a second a lap slower than his current 5000m pr. In fact, he's trying to keep his Lactic acid under 4. To mimic his workouts without a proper lactic measure and competence to use it (for a laugh, see how Katir and his "translator" did it at the high altitude camp from sweat elite's video), you'd have to be running more like 6-8k pace.
Threshold is not a pace, it's a physiological process in the body.
The Norwegians define threshold by lactate, which is a much better proxy for this process.
Therefore, this definition is a far more appropriate use of the term "threshold" than "1 hour pace".
exactly. Nobody runs 400m threshold pace at 1 hour pace. I believe...that's the whole point of short thresholds like 400 no? Threshold effort, but faster than threshold effort for say 2k repeats?