Amby Burfoot says it out loud - Chepngetich is doping

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1 year ago 10/15/2024 3:12pm EDT

in his latest

marathonhandbook.com

Opinion: Why It’s Hard To Trust Ruth Chepngetich’s Marathon World Record

@marathonHB

As a fan of distance running, it's hard not to be cynical about the Kenyan's win in Chicago. Its time to talk about the elephant in the room in the sport

Open link

:

"Ruth Chepngetich’s epic 2:09:56 world record in the Chicago Marathon on Sunday was unequivocally the greatest marathon performance of all time.

And that makes me queasy. In fact, I’m outraged.

I’m going to try to explain as briefly as possible why I am so troubled by this performance. And I admit that I could be wrong. After all, I have no evidence that Chepngetich cheated, as she has never failed a doping test.

But I don’t think I’m wrong. And I don’t think this is a time to be quiet."

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:00pm EDT

re: Brocher

I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else. At that level, they are all on drugs. Yes, Burfoot is outraged, but why is he emphasizing that women deserve better? Maybe the running community as a whole? I am a woman and feel Ruth C. is being told she shined too bright, which is far more problematic to me (^^^as a woman…) than the effect of her performance on women’s running. Is her record unfair to the pro women who are not doping? YES. Is she hurting “women’s running”? Not any more than anyone else’s enhanced performances, of which there are many.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:13pm EDT

re: Stop sign

Stop sign wrote:
I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else. At that level, they are all on drugs. Yes, Burfoot is outraged, but why is he emphasizing that women deserve better? Maybe the running community as a whole? I am a woman and feel Ruth C. is being told she shined too bright, which is far more problematic to me (^^^as a woman…) than the effect of her performance on women’s running. Is her record unfair to the pro women who are not doping? YES. Is she hurting “women’s running”? Not any more than anyone else’s enhanced performances, of which there are many.

"At that level, they are all on drugs." - CITATION NEEDED!!

"anyone else’s enhanced performances, of which there are many" - CITATION NEEDED!!

Please provide evidence for these outrageous claims!!

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:32pm EDT

re: Brocher

Where was he when Paula Radcliffe suddenly ran 2:15, when she's supposed to run 2:17-18 based on her PRs? And why was he using D'AMATO as an example? She has exactly the same red flag: knocking more than 3 mins off her PB and breaking the AR in one year at 37.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:34pm EDT

re: Brocher

Boooring poorly written article with useless generalities like

1. She should not have run a negative split

2. An athlete can't peak twice

3. The womens record should always be 10% slower than the mens record

4. Her progression was not gradual enough

blah blah blah

If these are her arguments then should question 50% of track athletes

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:38pm EDT

re: Joplas

Joplas wrote:
Boooring poorly written article with useless generalities like
3. The womens record should always be 10% slower than the mens record

LOL then clearly Radcliffe was doping too. Among quite a few others.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:38pm EDT

re: annoyed track fan

annoyed track fan wrote:
Stop sign wrote:
I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else. At that level, they are all on drugs. Yes, Burfoot is outraged, but why is he emphasizing that women deserve better? Maybe the running community as a whole? I am a woman and feel Ruth C. is being told she shined too bright, which is far more problematic to me (^^^as a woman…) than the effect of her performance on women’s running. Is her record unfair to the pro women who are not doping? YES. Is she hurting “women’s running”? Not any more than anyone else’s enhanced performances, of which there are many.
"At that level, they are all on drugs." - CITATION NEEDED!!
"anyone else’s enhanced performances, of which there are many" - CITATION NEEDED!!
Please provide evidence for these outrageous claims!!

"Ruth cheated" CITATION NEEDED!!

"Women's WR has to be around 10% slower than men's, otherwise it must be drugs" CITATION NEEDED!!

Please provide evidence for these outrageous claims!!

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:40pm EDT

re: Curious argue

Curious argue wrote:
Joplas wrote:
Boooring poorly written article with useless generalities like
3. The womens record should always be 10% slower than the mens record
LOL then clearly Radcliffe was doping too. Among quite a few others.

but I'm sure a lot on this board would agree with him. He clearly picks an easy target like Rojo did.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:41pm EDT

re: Brocher

Brocher wrote:
in his latest :
"Ruth Chepngetich’s epic 2:09:56 world record in the Chicago Marathon on Sunday was unequivocally the greatest marathon performance of all time.
And that makes me queasy. In fact, I’m outraged.
I’m going to try to explain as briefly as possible why I am so troubled by this performance. And I admit that I could be wrong. After all, I have no evidence that Chepngetich cheated, as she has never failed a doping test.
Link:marathonhandbook.com/opinion-why-its-h...
But I don’t think I’m wrong. And I don’t think this is a time to be quiet."

How can a woman be as fast as Bill Rodgers and faster than Frank Shorter?

No way

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:42pm EDT

re: Brocher

We need to give up on anti-performance-maximizing. It's a dumb ethos to tout; holding oneself back when we all appreciate the fruits of hard work and competitive spirit

it's time to move away from being performance enhancement shy.

We can still make fun of steroid users. Make fun of people pinning their a**es. But we can also appreciate and accept that it happens so radically that we can turn the industry into one of honesty

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:44pm EDT

re: Brocher

Brocher wrote:
in his latest :
"Ruth Chepngetich’s epic 2:09:56 world record in the Chicago Marathon on Sunday was unequivocally the greatest marathon performance of all time.
And that makes me queasy. In fact, I’m outraged.
I’m going to try to explain as briefly as possible why I am so troubled by this performance. And I admit that I could be wrong. After all, I have no evidence that Chepngetich cheated, as she has never failed a doping test.
Link:marathonhandbook.com/opinion-why-its-h...
But I don’t think I’m wrong. And I don’t think this is a time to be quiet."

Good for him for speaking his mind.

I didn't realize it's only 7% slower than the men's world record. Massive red flag.

He didn't even mention her agent Federico Rosa who along with his brother has represented many other drug cheats.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:44pm EDT

re: Newname

Newname wrote:
Brocher wrote:
in his latest :
"Ruth Chepngetich’s epic 2:09:56 world record in the Chicago Marathon on Sunday was unequivocally the greatest marathon performance of all time.
And that makes me queasy. In fact, I’m outraged.
I’m going to try to explain as briefly as possible why I am so troubled by this performance. And I admit that I could be wrong. After all, I have no evidence that Chepngetich cheated, as she has never failed a doping test.
Link:marathonhandbook.com/opinion-why-its-h...
But I don’t think I’m wrong. And I don’t think this is a time to be quiet."
How can a woman be as fast as Bill Rodgers and faster than Frank Shorter?
No way

How can an American woman be as fast as Jim Peters and faster than Emil Zatopek?

No way

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:45pm EDT

re: suburb resident

suburb resident wrote:
Brocher wrote:
in his latest :
"Ruth Chepngetich’s epic 2:09:56 world record in the Chicago Marathon on Sunday was unequivocally the greatest marathon performance of all time.
And that makes me queasy. In fact, I’m outraged.
I’m going to try to explain as briefly as possible why I am so troubled by this performance. And I admit that I could be wrong. After all, I have no evidence that Chepngetich cheated, as she has never failed a doping test.
Link:marathonhandbook.com/opinion-why-its-h...
But I don’t think I’m wrong. And I don’t think this is a time to be quiet."
Good for him for speaking his mind.
I didn't realize it's only 7% slower than the men's world record. Massive red flag.
He didn't even mention her agent Federico Rosa who along with his brother has represented many other drug cheats.

Radcliffe's WR was also only 7% slower than the men's WR.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:48pm EDT

re: Stop sign

Stop sign wrote:
I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else. At that level, they are all on drugs. Yes, Burfoot is outraged, but why is he emphasizing that women deserve better? Maybe the running community as a whole? I am a woman and feel Ruth C. is being told she shined too bright, which is far more problematic to me (^^^as a woman…) than the effect of her performance on women’s running. Is her record unfair to the pro women who are not doping? YES. Is she hurting “women’s running”? Not any more than anyone else’s enhanced performances, of which there are many.

"I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else."

This is the greatest running feat of all time that is why. This is more of an outlier than Bolt, Kipchoge, Kiptum, and i'd put it right above FloJo. It's so easy to put a finger on as doped performance that more people are going to be loud about it.

"At that level, they are all on drugs"

I don't understand why people say this as if it's a defense. You ask why are people outraged, and then follow up with the answer. We know they are all on drug, and it frustrating to see it happen over and over again. Do you expect us to just celebrate a drugged performance? Should we give lance his Tours back? No. We want the sport to be better so we are going to call it out.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:51pm EDT

re: Sledge_Hammer

Sledge_Hammer wrote:
suburb resident wrote:
Good for him for speaking his mind.
I didn't realize it's only 7% slower than the men's world record. Massive red flag.
He didn't even mention her agent Federico Rosa who along with his brother has represented many other drug cheats.
Radcliffe's WR was also only 7% slower than the men's WR.

Fair point.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:53pm EDT

re: Curious argue

Curious argue wrote:
Joplas wrote:
Boooring poorly written article with useless generalities like
3. The womens record should always be 10% slower than the mens record
LOL then clearly Radcliffe was doping too. Among quite a few others.

Yes

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:54pm EDT

re: TopTier

TopTier wrote:
Stop sign wrote:
I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else. At that level, they are all on drugs. Yes, Burfoot is outraged, but why is he emphasizing that women deserve better? Maybe the running community as a whole? I am a woman and feel Ruth C. is being told she shined too bright, which is far more problematic to me (^^^as a woman…) than the effect of her performance on women’s running. Is her record unfair to the pro women who are not doping? YES. Is she hurting “women’s running”? Not any more than anyone else’s enhanced performances, of which there are many.
"I am unclear why she is being maligned so much more than anyone else."
This is the greatest running feat of all time that is why. This is more of an outlier than Bolt, Kipchoge, Kiptum, and i'd put it right above FloJo. It's so easy to put a finger on as doped performance that more people are going to be loud about it.
"At that level, they are all on drugs"
I don't understand why people say this as if it's a defense. You ask why are people outraged, and then follow up with the answer. We know they are all on drug, and it frustrating to see it happen over and over again. Do you expect us to just celebrate a drugged performance? Should we give lance his Tours back? No. We want the sport to be better so we are going to call it out.

It's less about the WR being an outlier than the simple fact that women's sports are just not as strong as men's.

If they're all on drugs, then that's effectively a level-playing field. We celebrate this WR just as we celebrate D'AMATO and later Sisson's AR.

1 year ago 10/15/2024 4:58pm EDT

re: Sledge_Hammer

Sledge_Hammer wrote:
Newname wrote:
How can a woman be as fast as Bill Rodgers and faster than Frank Shorter?
No way
How can an American woman be as fast as Jim Peters and faster than Emil Zatopek?
No way

Why not?

Peters ran a 2:20 in 1952.

Rodgers and Shorter ran 20-30 years later.

Zatopek ran WRs in the 5k and 10k 1940s and early 50s. No American has come close

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