Stagnating Running Progress Despite Hard Training – What’s Missing?

Coached 30 some years, can see the problem right away.

Your mileage is fine, you need to run your 60-75’ long runs a bit quicker (somewhat hard) and it would help you greatly to focus on dropping your 5k ( you can do this fairly simply by running 400 reps roughly 1:35-1:40 begin a rep every 3’, this workout need not be on a track, grass or dirt is best. There is another missing piece here: it’s likely either stairs or strength work squats, kettlebell not sure but both helpful. And forget the dieting, plant based is your best bet, try not to drop below 130.

From your report I guess that a few simple changes along w some km reps on the track when the weather is better should bring your 5k down roughly 2 minutes . If your sports background includes signs of sprinting or jumping aptitude then 3’ drop in 5k is possible which should truthfully make 3h marathon pace pretty much a jog.

Good luck

@dsrunner Thank you so much, I really appreciate your advice and I feel so flattered by your optimism to shred so much time off my PRs. I have some questions on that. Just to clarify: 400m in 1.35-1.40 and then the break should be until 3 minutes are over (so 1.25-1.20 break?)? Could you give me a pace range for the 60-75‘ long runs? And how can I integrate the strength/stairs session into my weekly plan so that my legs aren’t too fatigued on important runs? Last question: what would be a good plan to begin with after this marathon season? Base building, and then focus to improve my 5 k until spring and start training for longer distances in autumn? My background: as a kid I enjoyed sprinting stuff and as a teen I was a lot into cardio fitness (indoor cycling, step aerobics, dancing, jogging, etc.).

80-100k a week is quite a lot. You might try to run less but some sessions faster.

At the bigger picture: You can improve your PRs only so much. At a certain point it gets a lot harder. And you are probably at that point.

My guess is that you probably would do better in longer races, since you enjoy a decent amount of training mileage.

Just skimmed your text so maybe im totally wrong here but...

Its totally normal to have plateaus from time to time. The key is to be patient n consistency. One note tho, if you are 35+ age could be a factor which is totally normal too.

Do you do weight training?

No weight training, I’ve started a few times, but didn’t know how to implement it into my training plan, any Ideas? I used to run hilly routes due to my living place some years ago- had the feeling I was stronger in my legs (although I was slower then now) or it was just what you said: Age could be the problem, I feel old now lol.

Do you take breaks from running? How does general wellbeing change after the lighter weeks? Performance focused runners often get trapped in chronic fatigue. It starts slowly and after a while it seems as normal condition.

Progress is often limited by metabolic causes. Nutrition lags behind physical load. It is difficult to test all vitamins and minerals. However nutrition always can be improved. More healthy fats, more protein, more nutritious foods. Body weight and calorie restriction should not be thought about.

Periodize your training more.

If you're doing the same thing week in week out, your body will eventually need a different stimulus to improve.

As another poster has said, maybe do a 5k block where you initially focus on speed with long recoveries, and then gradually (over a number of weeks) reduce that recovery, so that the workout becomes more of a vo2 max stimulus.

You can keep the threshold in there, but maybe change the way you do it (for a different stimulus). Look at how the Norwegians do threshold e.g. 10 x 3' intervals with a 1' static recovery, for example. I'm guessing this is quite different from how you do it, and has the added benefit of allowing you to run at a faster pace without tipping over threshold intensity. It's also far less mentally draining.

Too often people allow themselves to sit in a rut for far too long. If training isn't working, you just need to try new things and until you stumble on something that works. The same things don't work for everyone, however.

Good luck!

no point in talking training, diet, recovery, etc. without addressing the elephant in the room first: what is your ferritin level at?

There is different science about ferritin....

Ferritin, the known iron storage protein, is meant to be inside cells, NOT outside cells -- in the blood. Ferritin is only found in the blood when there is rising inflammation in the tissue, by which time a patient’s health status has already been seriously disrupted. That basic fact is not taught properly and completely to doctors, which is leading to an alarming increase in
recommendations for iron supplementation. What may come as a surprise is that ferritin in the blood is an “empty shotgun shell,” (Worwood, Jacobs et al, 1976;
Kell & Pretorius, 2010) and the serum ferritin has very little, if any, iron.

honestly, stfu with this nonsense

You sound more fast twitch from your description. Try getting rid of the tempo work and alternate sessions with long reps and shorter faster reps. Keep recovery 1:1 and just try edging the pace up. Keep the easy days easy including the long run

End of thread. Nice job sir.

Adding in strength training would be my first thing. Are you running at paces faster than race pace aka even if your doing marathon training its still important to do workouts off and on at 3k-5k pace etc.

You need to race-rediscover why you are training to begin. Race during your training block, outside your comfort zone in a 5k-10k to make it hurt, bad. Then go back to training with a renewed sense of purpose. Thats it

Thanks everyone for your replies. I’ve been tested recently and all Iron related parameters were ok, but I’m always on the lower edge of Hb.

So I’ve heard a lot of (different) thinks now, trying to make a complete picture of that :D it gets a bit confusing as there seem to be opposite views.

I think the problem lies in my legs, so strength training might be at least a helpful thing.

In spring I did a good half marathon and a good 10. In summer I wanted to concentrate more on speed. I had good sessions with 3k and 5k speed and reduced weekly mileage to focus on recovery. But that did not quite work out in my race results and. My guess was that I need a certain amount of easy miles.

yes, if u have a gym nearby maybe go there 1-2 times a week and solely focus on a few (3-5) exercises, multi joint like squats etc. and core exercises. begin with bodyweight as load and increase as u get stronger.

if you dont have a gym nearby try to do it at home 1-2 times a week. maybe after or before ur run.

hill reps are awesome so if u can find a decent hill (ca 200 m) n do it once a week that wud b great.

Focus on getting your PRs down as much as possible in the 400m, 800m, and 1500m/Mile for about 6 months. You will be shocked how much easier it makes marathon and tempo pace feel. Getting comfortable at faster paces will make the start of a race less of a shock to your system.

In the various run groups I've been part of in my adult life, I can always pick out the people who ran in high school, vs those who got into the sport in their 20s or 30s, just by looking at their stride. Generally, people who have never trained for a middle distance race just don't have the same knee drive, hip mobility, and turnover as people who have.