I am having one of those years where my team is horrible and it's making me question everything. We've done the mileage, we've done the various workouts, we're racing in a decent mix of races (some big meets, some smaller) and........ these guys are just stagnant.
Stagnant would be fine if they were somewhat fast, but they are NOT that!
With one month left of the season I am tempted to scrap the pace charts, tempos and all that and just "cook them on high" with 2 days of hard fast short reps+3 easy days of medium miles.
I honestly don't know if there's anything left to lose.
I've been having that kind of year. the kids finally had breakout performances in the 5th race, but before that, they were more than a minute off PRs, with a ton of base and threshold under their belts.
ideally, i hope that the increase in base and threshold will get them really close to former PRs, if they are able to increase workload from prior years. but that didn't happen for whatever reason.
Hopefully a few weeks of race specific and some R pace stuff, along with a taper, will get them to bounce to another level.
Especially for veteran runners I track progress more by where were they last year at this time on this course. Cause if they are running faster than the same time last their on track to PR the end of the season when it counts. Generally i would take my athletes to the same meets 90% of time so comparing times was easier.
Im not going to post every week but most weeks we are:
Mon-tempo intervals/hills (alternating weeks)
Tue- easy mileage
Wed V02M work
Th recovery miles
Fri pre-meet (jogging+strides)
Sat Race/Long Run
Sun rest day
Nothing ground breaking I know, but then this is low level HS running.
Personally, I would scrap the Vo2 max day for a substantial threshold workout, at least for September and early October. Their races give them plenty of Vo2max, IMO. I don't think that's reason enough for the stagnation you are seeing, but your inclination to pile on speed work right now as a remedy is cause for concern.
Countless weak teams with good coaches see steady progress all season long with less fast stuff than your team gets already.
over the years ive seen great teams that come out swinging at the first meet, and ive seen other great teams where their kids turn a corner very hard in a positive way in the first or 2nd week of October.
For the most part, if you keep putting in the work, the kids will get there at some point. It's easy to second guess when they don't seem to be where you would think at a given point.
question: what are you doing for vo2 work? And what are you basing the paces on?
I am having one of those years where my team is horrible and it's making me question everything. We've done the mileage, we've done the various workouts, we're racing in a decent mix of races (some big meets, some smaller) and........ these guys are just stagnant.
Stagnant would be fine if they were somewhat fast, but they are NOT that!
With one month left of the season I am tempted to scrap the pace charts, tempos and all that and just "cook them on high" with 2 days of hard fast short reps+3 easy days of medium miles.
I honestly don't know if there's anything left to lose.
How is their attitude? Do they just "go through the motions" or are they really into it? Being amped really helps.
I was slow (probably slower than your guys) but I was very into running and we had the state champ on our team, so every meet felt exciting. I think a lot of running is just being able to find a way to get stoked.
It sounds like they are doing the work, so it might be the "fire" that is missing?
Also, are they hitting their paces in training? If so, what about having them do a TT on the track over two miles to show them that they can run the pace you need them to run? Sort of as a confidence builder (assuming they are just getting psyched out at meets).
If your training has worked in the past, it's likely that part of the equation is mostly fine.
However, we all know that there's more to running well than just the running part. Is the team young? Are there good leaders? As Ruxton asks above, are they just "going through the motions", or do they really want it? Running is very much a mental grind as much as a physical one.
Speaking of which, one thing I'm a proponent of is a "longish" tempo of 3 or 4 miles instead of tempo intervals. That gives runners a chance to practice being uncomfortable (physically and mentally) for an extended period of time rather than knowing they have a break coming up.
over the years ive seen great teams that come out swinging at the first meet, and ive seen other great teams where their kids turn a corner very hard in a positive way in the first or 2nd week of October.
For the most part, if you keep putting in the work, the kids will get there at some point. It's easy to second guess when they don't seem to be where you would think at a given point.
question: what are you doing for vo2 work? And what are you basing the paces on?
Again, nothing crazy, all standard issue V02M work
10-12x400, 6x8, 1M Cut Down.. each group has a goal pace to hit, so I'm not having everyone try to run with our #1 guy, I try to tailor the training paces to each kid as close as possible. Paces are based on their current 5k pace.
The reason I just tossed out "short quick reps" is that we have 4 weeks left of the season, and one of those is Fall break. So really only 3 weeks with full on coaches supervision of practice. It just seems like something to "shake it up" also, it's fun to run fast and generally fast quick stuff gives quick results.
Everything says stick to the plan because this is how you train for XC. It just is. If we had slow steady improvement I would feel fine, there's just a fine line between trusting in your plan vs being stubborn and not adjusting to what the race results are showing you.
Speaking of which, one thing I'm a proponent of is a "longish" tempo of 3 or 4 miles instead of tempo intervals. That gives runners a chance to practice being uncomfortable (physically and mentally) for an extended period of time rather than knowing they have a break coming up.
There is no way this group could do a 3-4M tempo run. They have virtually zero sense of pace. All they would do is either race it, or drag through it way too slow, the broken tempos help them stay focused. Either way we wouldn't get the stimulus we want.
In the past I have done 4M tempos, but I had 4-6 guys that could hang in a pack and keep the pace appropriate.
Something no one picked up on is that this is high school. Unless you're a private school/recruiting somehow, sometimes you just don't have the talented runners to make it work. Yes, hopefully your runners are improving, learning, and having fun, but sometimes you just don't have the pieces to be competitive.
Also it's not an exact science. You could do the same thing one year and not produce the same results as you did the previous year with the exact same methods. I'm not sure if 'cooking them on high' will produce what you want now though. Maybe they just need time, inspiration, pace work. If they have no sense of pace that isn't going to help at all. I'd look towards that.
I am having one of those years where my team is horrible and it's making me question everything. We've done the mileage, we've done the various workouts, we're racing in a decent mix of races (some big meets, some smaller) and........ these guys are just stagnant.
Stagnant would be fine if they were somewhat fast, but they are NOT that!
With one month left of the season I am tempted to scrap the pace charts, tempos and all that and just "cook them on high" with 2 days of hard fast short reps+3 easy days of medium miles.
I honestly don't know if there's anything left to lose.
How is their attitude? Do they just "go through the motions" or are they really into it? Being amped really helps.
I was slow (probably slower than your guys) but I was very into running and we had the state champ on our team, so every meet felt exciting. I think a lot of running is just being able to find a way to get stoked.
It sounds like they are doing the work, so it might be the "fire" that is missing?
Also, are they hitting their paces in training? If so, what about having them do a TT on the track over two miles to show them that they can run the pace you need them to run? Sort of as a confidence builder (assuming they are just getting psyched out at meets).
This...your athletes mindset individually and "mostly" collectively as a team, have to be sold out to doing XC/running. Anything short of that and they most likely just go through the motions. I have found that, not saying you aren't doing this, having talks with them at least once a week and show that you believe in them (some emotion matters here). I also talk tactics and positioning in the early stages of a race and being willing to suffer and feel large amounts of discomfort in the later stages will give them an edge that alot of kids are not willing to approach. Small successes can build momentum with cultivation from the coach(es) and create a team that is really mediocre into one that contends.