Clayton Young's super shoe approach

Got 1100 miles and going in a pair of endorphin speed 3s. Patrick Martin seems to agree.

The original FFTurbo is notoriously durable. I don't know about the Paris Metaspeeds because they have different foam. But if Clayton is fine with them running at his speeds I guess a mere mortal will get way more miles out of them before they die.

I have to admit I still run sometimes in the very first version of the Nike Vaporfly.

I ran around 2500 miles in both Alpha Fly 2, pretty good shoe.

The mesh is still intact but for both of them the right hand side outer layer of the outer sole gave away, and on only one foot (so I guess it s my fault).

The same happened on the Vaporfly Next% 2, but much quicker (like 1000 miles only).

I noticed that I run in such a way that the shoe takes very little damage compared to others over time (and also never get injured).

That's not really a supershoe though.

Not a supershoe but the same foam. I have done 1350km in some Superblasts so far and they're holding up well. Upper and sole still good and feel like there's plenty of cushion left.

When I watched Clayton’s video, I got the sense he was exaggerating a bit.. almost like he caught himself saying the old pair was worn out and wanted to emphasize it was a durable shoe.

That said I do recall an old tinman elite video where reed fisher (I think) was rocking some well-worn adios pro 2s.

Personally I put about 200 miles on my supershoes then sell them for $40-60.. there’s a market for used supershoes that still have some life left in them.

I think you can get a couple hundred miles out of super shoes. They won’t be nearly as poppy but they still protect your legs in training.

I have been wearing super shoes as daily trainers. The NB RC Elite 2 was good for as many miles as a normal trainer, but the RC Elite 3 started feeling pretty flat after 250 miles. AF1s last forever. It depends on the shoe.

He did say the same thing at the beginning of the series though: he uses one pair for all workouts in the build, and then a fresh pair for the race.

The way he spoke here didn't preclude the possibility that he trains with multiple shoes, cycling them in and out throughout a build - only that he keeps a pair very fresh for race day. Otherwise, I can't imagine someone of his caliber putting that many miles into a pair of shoes and having them last...

My first adidas Adios Pro 3s have about 300 miles on them so far, and I'll keep putting miles on them as long as the shoes feel good (I only use them for quicker days because they're too uncomfortable at slow pace). They have far better cushioning than any of my "regular" training shoes. I bought two other pair early on, thinking the first pair wouldn't last, but I've been pleasantly surprised. Given that, just looking at the midsoles, I have to think they won't go another 100 miles or so. 400 miles out of super shoes that I got for $125? I'll take that every day.

I stand corrected. Thank you. Strikes me as quite the unnecessary risk for a pro runner, but to each his own.

Geoff Burns was on The Real Science of Sport Podcast in June of 2024. I recall him talking about training in super shoes. If I remember correctly, he said he puts lots if miles on each pair of super shoes and trains in super shoes more than most people. He also said that he believes that because of the rebound ability of the foam they might actually last longer than other shoes (probably EVA foams??).

The running shoe companies want you to think they are only good for a short period of time. The new foams seem to last almost forever. I used to put hot melt glue on sole of my shoes (on the heel) to make them last longer years ago. But that was when I was young and indestructible. I've started doing it again since they seem to last longer these days.

What is this market, I'd like to know? Thanks!

I have a hypothesis that one reason I get a lot of miles from my super shoes is the surfaces I wear them on. They usually aren’t getting muddy / dirt on them and that seems to reduce the lifetime of shoes when it happens

I get downvoted to oblivion when I post about wearing super shoes as daily trainers for a full year. Downvote all you want, but my injury frequency and soreness went way down using super shoes daily and using them way past snobby shoetuber expiry dates compared to the previous generations of garbage low stack height stiff foam heavy outsole crap that was mass marketed.

Wear a pair of 2000km vaporfly 3s for a week and then wear a pair of 400km brooks ghosts for a week, and tell me which one feels better.

Its a completely new era, stay behind if you want. there is also tremendous value in the longevity for those that cannot fork over 400 bucks multiple times per year.

Max race responsiveness is a different story.

When i was a senior in high school, i put over 1900 miles on a pair of asics shoes. No injuries at the time. Shoes seem to have lasted longer back then: 1991.

1) "Hundreds and hundreds of miles" is not a lot, even by the manufacturers' crazy (and obviously self-interested) recommendations.

2) Most shoes lose a significant percentage of their cushioning in the first 300-500 miles, but after that, they are basically bottomed out and will not lose any more. If a shoe with 60% of its original cushioning feels good to you, there's no reason you can't run in it until the outsole wears away or the upper is torn to shreds.

3) Pebax foams do tend to compress pretty quickly, but even a "bottomed out" super shoe still provides more cushioning and energy return than a non-super shoe. A 4% becomes more like a 2%. (TPU foams, by contrast, pretty much last forever. I one put a brand new Adidas Energy Boost on my left foot and an identical shoe with ~2000 miles on my right foot, and the midsoles felt basically the same. The only difference was that the old shoe had a much looser upper.)

4) Old shoes haven't been shown to lead to injuries. The issue is that with less cushioning, you typically run slower. The basic tradeoff with shoes is that cushioning makes you faster, and distal weight makes you slower. One possible exception is that if you run in "supportive" shoes with a medial post, the dual density midsole can wear at different rates, meaning that an old pair of shoes will develop a distinctive slope in the footbed. That's probably bad, but medial posting is way less common than it was 20 years ago, so not an issue for most people.