Breaking 16:00 for the 5k potential

No luck sorry.

" I didn't race yet, but I am probably somewhere in the upper 18 minute range "

This indicates you're going to struggle to break 20.

It's going to be a long road. Work hard you might do it

Well, like I said I never training properly until after cross country season. I started my new training program in November. I don't have a lot of natural talent, but I'd say I have an average amount. Also, I am definetly under 20 minutes for the 5k.

Dude,

Why not run for your D3 team? I'm fine with it if you don't want to, but it's a golden opportunity. You'll get to train with runners who are likely at least a little faster than you (even if it's a sucky team; no disrespect to you intended), and you'll just might find they have a decent coach. Running and training with others usually is the best bet. I'm assuming you haven't started college yet. I think one thing most college freshman soon learn is that since they don't have to go to school all day long each day that they have a lot of extra time on their hands that they didn't think they'd have. running for your college team is a great way to fill that time.

As far as your question about how much talent it takes, I'd say it doesn't take a lot of talent, but make no mistake, lots of people put down even 15 flat 5k runners here, but you break 16 minutes, and you've got at least a little bit of talent. You need to have some to break 16 minutes. I agree with the other poster who assumes you're not quite in the 18-minute range if you just think you are. Get in a race and find out where you really are. Bottom line though is that even if you run 20 minutes, you can get down to 16 minutes with some training. Find a program and go for it. I'd say the most important part of a running program to get down to 16 minutes is the long run. Build up to a 12-15 miler each weekend. Stay steady with that long run for a long time and mix in shorter harder runs, tempo runs, and the ocassional race.

Good luck.

You can definately do it and I would also reccomend joining your division 3 team for some support in your goal. Also, don't limit yourself to sub 16...its nice to put out there but theres a lot of room for improvement beyond 16:00. You also probably shouldn't try to run 100 miles per week...it just seems like too much for you. I ran 15:30 this year off around 70 mpw and don't really consider myself super talented. You should just try to average 70 miles per week for a good year or two with some tempo and VO2 max stuff mixed in to really build your aerobic base which you are much in need of. Good luck with your goal...ask if you want some specific workouts.

Take your time reaching 100mpw, there are lots of gains to be had on the way there.

My HS PRs (by year) were 20:03-19:37-17:24-17:01. At age 20 I was doing 16:16, 21 was 16:13, 22 was 16:03, 23 was 15:51, 24 was 15:37. So you can go a long way without tons of obvious talent. You'll only know if you have enough to do it if you try.

Do lots of tempos, get the mileage up, and be patient. Pick 3-4 goal races per year and peak for them, adding in logical track workouts.

Workouts would be helpfull. I read the Daniel's Running Formula and I am on this board reading many of the good articles and I have gathered alot of knowledge. After my spring racing season, I wont be racing again till sometime in the fall. I was going to just work on my base from the last race and through the summer. Pretty much 6 easy runs and a long run, a day off when I feel I need one. Would it be alright to throw in a 5x1000m or 3x1mile workout here and there? I know Daniels put the VO2 Max workout in Phase III of his training program.

Don't to the 100-mile week thing...unless you're doubling, it will most likely hurt more than help. Start with moderate volume increases using easy to moderate intensity. Add in faster paced work after you reach and sustain volume. Each year or season, do some more.

Don't think that high mileage is the only answer. It does answer most people's issues with distance running, but comes with it's own drawbacks. If you've never run more than 60 miles a week for 6-8 weeks in a row without problem, 100's will not be the magic pill. If, in 4 years, after increasing to those volumes, you might find 100's to be the answer.

Read this and see my experience:

http://wls3.com/running/steele-100mile.php

PS: I ran my best 5k, 10k and half marathon off of 55-65 miles a week. On the other end of the spectrum, I ran my best middle distances (600-1000m) on 110 a week...several years later.

i don't believe 100 mile weeks are the answer. people seem to just think that if they somehow get through that type of mileage they are going to get so much faster. You need good, quality workouts. you're not running a marathon here. run for the D3 program if you have the time and they have a decent coach. get some work done on the track and get hill work in if possible. get your mileage up, but don't just think that if you can somehow manage really high mileage that good times on the track will follow. BTW...I have run 100 miles per week and went from a decent (not great) HS runner to ~14:15 in college, so i have at least a little idea of what i'm talking about. the mileage helps, but only if you're going to work on your speed, too.

QUALITY AND QUANTITY

oh, and sweet jesus, breaking 16 does not require "an extreme amount of talent." any decent, healthy runner who has the time and will work should be able to do that.

I'd say if you threw in a vo2 max workout in the base phase you'd be fine. The same goes to tempo runs. Just dont get carried away. I would build up to the mileage you want and alternate weeks with a tempo and a vo2 workout. Week A : Tempo , Week B : VO2 Max. Now of course as it gets closer to your race, you'd want to be more consistant. Do strides 3-4 days a week also.

alright mate, first of all i like the way in the u.s you call it Vo2 max workouts. i think everyone has made most of the points only thing id add is make little goals i.e get comfortable running 50miles a week for a while then 55 etc... and dont just say break 16 maybe break 18 then 17 as it will seem much easier than breaking 3/4 minutes, its lots of little steps that will do it not one big jump. running is all about opinions and everyone trains differently so experiment with differnet seesions and see what works for you. good luck.

dealer wrote:

oh, and sweet jesus, breaking 16 does not require "an extreme amount of talent." any decent, healthy runner who has the time and will work should be able to do that.

Sure it does. Maybe not taking into account the population of this running board, but if you were to ask Joe Shmoe to try and break 16, you'd have some issues.

Jesus, I'm 40 now, and I used to break 15. I just ran 3 miles in 20 minutes yesterday for a training run, but since I have no wheels anymore, breaking 18, which I barely did last July, was and would be freakin' hard.

To the orginal poster: I learned a long time ago that "it's a shitty craftsman that blames his tools". It wasn't your coach; it was you. Maybe you didn't jive with him or whatever, but your coach couldn't run a single mile for you, so don't blame him.

On a more positive note, though, it sounds like you are willing to do the work. There is plenty of information out there to help you to get to where you want to be. Even Runner's World has a goofy online "coach"; not the best, but if you have no one else, that can get you started. It takes dedication, time and talent to break 21, 20, 19, 18, 17, 16, 15, and 14 minutes for the 5K. It all depends on how much work you are willing to do.

Flagpole Willy is right in the sense that you probably could make your D3 team, and if you have the dedication you say you have, then joining the team will make reaching your goal easier and not as long term of a goal. Good luck.

You definitely have potential to break 16 at some point in your life. You just gotta train right. So many people are all about high mileage, and doing 100 miles a week may get you there, or it may crush your goals when you wind up so injured you can no longer run... Not worth it.

In 10th grade, I ran 6:23 for the mile... Started out running 5K XC in 12th grade, and was running mid-18's and managed to get it down to 17:31 by year's end with decent coaching. Ran about 30 miles a week and got it down to 16:18 and ran 5M in 27:30 at that time. Kept on training 40-50 a week and got down to 15:17 within two years. I was never naturally talented (I couldn't even run a full mile till 9th grade, and was never fast - couldn't break 60s in the 400 through high school). My point is, if you apply yourself, chances are you will have a good shot at breaking 16 in the next few years... and maybe set a new goal once you do that.

Get Jack Daniels Book (Daniels Running Formula) and follow the plan in there - that'll get you places. I am sure people on this board will have different opinions, but I think it is one of the simplest and most effective ways to train following a generic program.

Glad you chose your school based on academics... There's time to get a great student and a great runner if you work at it. Good luck!

C'MON GUYS OBVIOUSLY A TROLL.

Holland Nass wrote:

Jesus, I'm 40 now, and I used to break 15. I just ran 3 miles in 20 minutes yesterday for a training run, but since I have no wheels anymore, breaking 18, which I barely did last July, was and would be freakin' hard.

you're 40. i was talking to a guy entering college.

i guess now that i really think about the pace required for 16:00, I wouldn't say it's a breeze for a good portion of the people around here. but again, if you're young and willing to work, I believe most guys could get to that point. whether they actually can mentally handle it is another issue. it hurts, and most people don't like that too much.

Well, I'm decent, and except for the high blood pressure, I'm pretty healthy. And I work hard. And I "had" talent. But I know what you meant.

I'm a guy who thought I had little or no talent in high school before I started running a bit more seriously. In Grade 12 I started running every other day in the fall, 30 minutes at pretty much tempo effort. I had no idea what I was doing, but that turned out to be not bad. In the winter and over the spring I upped the mileage to about 70km a week, did nothing on the track but instead ran road workouts, 2 and three minute efforts, a tempo and a 'long run' of about 12km. I ran 16:30 on the track that year.

That fall I ran for my university, trained steadily with a group of guys who were way better than me, upped the miles to about 90-100km a week, and ran 15:45 the next summer. The year after that, 130km a week on average and ran 14:55. My best, for a guy who actually finished last in a few high school races, is 14:39. The 100 mile weeks aren't going to help yet. You'd be overtraining. 5000m is a race of speed and raw fitness, not endurance. Your core workout should be max VO2 sessions between 800m and 1200m to start. Speed sessions of 400m. Just get that work done at your Daniels prescribed pace and do it week after week. YOu'll surprise yourself.

It just takes time. I'd consider myself to have little or no talent at all as far as being able to get fit quickly, and I'm well under 15. The 'talent' that I had and have is the ability to go out day after day, be smart, avoid injury, and look long term.

Anyone can run 16 flat. All you have to do is have a little patience, a little heart, a lot of hard work, and some nuts...

Dude, 5 years ago I was 35 had never ran and was smoking a pack of cigs a day, I started running worked my ass off for a few years and have a whole string of 5ks in the 16:00's, the best I've done so far is 16;01, so if this broke down old jalopy can do that, kid, the world is your oyster.