I think it's creating a program that values being there. I never had this problem, so if it was one or two kids they either conformed or quit. Then word spread and kids came out and showed up. I had teams of 50-60 in a school of 750 (9-12).
At the same school, the swim team was in bad shape- kids not showing up, not taking it seriously, it was a joke.
They brought a coach in and, with the cooperation of the AD, she ran a program that was so strict- miss once and you're off the team. Discipline, dedication. Her first year she was down to 5 boys.
Over the next few years she built the program, kids came out and knew what they had to do to be part of the team.
She retired and the new coaches kept it going and they've had large numbers of dedicated swimmers (boys and girls) who win sectional and state championships on a regular basis.
I think you have to enlist the help of the AD AND get the parents to "sign on" and support you in this. You may lose some kids but in the end you'll have a program you will be proud of.
I think it's creating a program that values being there. I never had this problem, so if it was one or two kids they either conformed or quit. Then word spread and kids came out and showed up. I had teams of 50-60 in a school of 750 (9-12).
At the same school, the swim team was in bad shape- kids not showing up, not taking it seriously, it was a joke.
They brought a coach in and, with the cooperation of the AD, she ran a program that was so strict- miss once and you're off the team. Discipline, dedication. Her first year she was down to 5 boys.
Over the next few years she built the program, kids came out and knew what they had to do to be part of the team.
She retired and the new coaches kept it going and they've had large numbers of dedicated swimmers (boys and girls) who win sectional and state championships on a regular basis.
I think you have to enlist the help of the AD AND get the parents to "sign on" and support you in this. You may lose some kids but in the end you'll have a program you will be proud of.
I see the use of “sign in” in every sport, at all levels, but what does it mean? How would a parent support the coach?
We set really clear expectations at the beginning of the season. Basically, be at practice. Email us if you can't. Nobody should miss more than 5 practices in a season. We also reward kids with perfect or near-perfect attendance by awarding varsity points.
We're a bit more flexible with our middle schoolers, but make sure any kids who have been missing for other activities in middle school understand that expectations have increased when they get to high school.
It seems like every year we have 1 or 2 kids who don't quite get with the program. I always have a conversation with them and then send the parents an email if that doesn't fix it. I think making kids take accountability when they miss practice rather than just no-showing is the biggest piece.
Also, it seems like you're trolling with "winning is #1," but it definitely isn't. If that's your attitude, you'll never get good buy-in from the non-varsity kids.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
The issue we have with attendance isn't that the kids are lazy and just not showing up, it's that they are the leaders of the school. They are the kids in student government, band, school plays, scholastic clubs, you name it.
I find it very difficult to tell some kid that I don't want him on the XC team if he can't be at every single practice, when I know he is probably an 18 min guy on his best day.
I lose nothing by having him come to practice more days than not, where he loses everything (xc related) by me kicking him off the team. I also 100% lose the chance to maybe make him into an every day guy.
I try to balance it out. I don't want to be some Little League Parent Syndrome where I act like every meet is the Olympic Trials but I don't want to be The Jogging Club either.
I think it's creating a program that values being there. I never had this problem, so if it was one or two kids they either conformed or quit. Then word spread and kids came out and showed up. I had teams of 50-60 in a school of 750 (9-12).
At the same school, the swim team was in bad shape- kids not showing up, not taking it seriously, it was a joke.
They brought a coach in and, with the cooperation of the AD, she ran a program that was so strict- miss once and you're off the team. Discipline, dedication. Her first year she was down to 5 boys.
Over the next few years she built the program, kids came out and knew what they had to do to be part of the team.
She retired and the new coaches kept it going and they've had large numbers of dedicated swimmers (boys and girls) who win sectional and state championships on a regular basis.
I think you have to enlist the help of the AD AND get the parents to "sign on" and support you in this. You may lose some kids but in the end you'll have a program you will be proud of.
This is called the "Dip of Change". Many poor leaders fear the dip of change; good leaders know that to really change the culture that initially it is going to have to look worse before it gets better. But that the worse is only temporary.
Set the tone on Day 1. I tell my kids that despite being a "no-cut" sport, XC is a sport that should be taken seriously. I outline my policy that matches those of other sports, three unexcused absences will result in you being cut from the team.
I also inform them that they are young adults in my eyes. If they have to miss a practice or team function, then they (not a parent) must e-mail me 24 hours in advance to earn an excused absence. This is no different than what is expected in the work world. I also strongly suggest that if they are going to be absent, then that absence needs to be legitimate - medical appointment, prior engagement or school function, make-up tests, etc. They cannot miss practice because they have to get ready to see a concert or because the parents want to beat traffic leaving town on a holiday weekend.
Like another coach stated, I will not have the program reduced to a jogging club or to be used as college application fluff. If a student won't treat it seriously, then I don't want them around because they very likely wouldn't do the work to begin with. Once a kid or two gets away with spotty attendance and effort, then dozens more will try to take advantage. You cannot let that cancer spread.
Agree with the more experienced people here. Communicate clearly the expectations, bend like bamboo but dont break. Usually, the better kids have better attendance, summer through season.
I deal with individual circumstances. A kid that just misses for no reason probably doesnt have it in his heart and I deem not ready for competition until proven through practice. Usually they arent in good enough shape by the end of the second week of official practice to hang with a full workout anyway, overuse injury etc just self eliminates. I do cut back on workouts if needed to give them a chance to come back in one piece the next day but not running in the summer is the biggest deterrent and they all know it coming in anyway.
Those school leaders, overachievers mentioned...Summer running makes up for a lot of that. I dont have half the talent some of these kids have but I do have to look at it from a parent perspective. They need the chance to be good at multiple things. They actually are always involved in creating solutions to conflicts which is probably more important. As long as they know the adults are communicating and working together, they dont try pulling a fast one. They want to do it all but just need a little help organizing. When it comes to varsity spots, Ive had almost no problems with these kids. They figured it out early. Like 2 years before and planned it out.
Now, for the extreme talent that has all the answers and you have an unwanted parent as an assistant coach... Be very clear and firm with your expectation and timliness of communication. I have won over many parents because I can look them in the eye and tell them to take their "special" kid across town if they dont like what we are doing. Usually, the other kids and parents are all over it and I dont have to go there but they all know I will. We will be better off as a program without "special" people who dont want to be part of the program. You can make a difference here or you can go somewhere else and be a pain in their butt. You dont get to be disruptive or dysfunctional to the culture here. Every kid knows it and they love structure, boundaries and truth. Very few have ever tried to cross that line. All but a couple figured it out. Concensus: Good Riddance!
Fostering friendship (rather than competition) on the team helps quite a bit in this regard.
Our coach did stuff like 15 minute touch football games and long bomb catching contests before practice occasionally before we went out on easy runs a couple of times (this WAS Oklahoma).
We did mixed relays of like three miles where everybody ran a half but the teams all had members of various abilities.
We had slow days where guys in different grades and abilities ran together in pairs.
On the really hard days we were out there supporting each other.
Our coach at the time was young but he spent nearly 50 years coaching cross country before he retired and is a legendary coach in the state now with multiple championships, individual state winners and college runners.
It starts at the top. The AD and how he/she respects the sport.
The coach has to be there, first, every day and show the most enthusiasm. The kids aren’t dumb and can see through a coach that doesn’t want to be there or doesn’t really love the sport.
Where I am from in the small town south of where I coached, an AD who treated our sport as if it were study hall or the glee club, hired a lady who was wife of the golf coach.
She is there to pad the family income and when her cross country team had social media, even put golf stuff on it for her husband.
That is an AD problem. Just like in the military where the troops reflect the esprit of the leadership, the same holds true for high school cross country runners and their leadership.
The AD half asses a coaching hire, the kids will half ass their enthusiasm.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
It starts at the top. The AD and how he/she respects the sport.
The coach has to be there, first, every day and show the most enthusiasm. The kids aren’t dumb and can see through a coach that doesn’t want to be there or doesn’t really love the sport.
Where I am from in the small town south of where I coached, an AD who treated our sport as if it were study hall or the glee club, hired a lady who was wife of the golf coach.
She is there to pad the family income and when her cross country team had social media, even put golf stuff on it for her husband.
That is an AD problem. Just like in the military where the troops reflect the esprit of the leadership, the same holds true for high school cross country runners and their leadership.
The AD half asses a coaching hire, the kids will half ass their enthusiasm.
I coach at a school like this. where Il I've you have to have a teacher be the head coach. The teacher doesn't know anything about running. She "hired" me to help however it's been a waste of my time. First off school ends at 2:30 and it takes her almost an hour to get down to the kids who have been goofing off for 40 minutes waiting for her. Then practice starts almost 1 hour after school. I'll give a workout that suits their training just to be told, "we can't use the track or that field" "they're tired" (they maybe run 15 miles a week) "the weather." It's like she just wants them to run 1 mile, stretch, and go home. They're late to all their races and dead last in every race. They had 2 good runners who ended up transferring to other schools. Half of them barely show up anyways. I called it quits, I'm basically a volunteer and got nothing out of it.
Or like in the early 2000’s when our AD decided not to let any XC athletes train off the campus grounds in fear of a kid getting hit by a car along the roads someplace ( ironically, I did have one kid intentionally hit by a crazy guy in a pick up truck during the summer… hospitalized for precautionary reasons and released… )
On mileage days we had to call a day off but have a non payed “ volunteer “ meet the guys off campus to run….. Well anyway thanks to anyone who coaches, cares and tries to make it work in communities that make your efforts difficult
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
It starts at the top. The AD and how he/she respects the sport.
The coach has to be there, first, every day and show the most enthusiasm. The kids aren’t dumb and can see through a coach that doesn’t want to be there or doesn’t really love the sport.
Where I am from in the small town south of where I coached, an AD who treated our sport as if it were study hall or the glee club, hired a lady who was wife of the golf coach.
She is there to pad the family income and when her cross country team had social media, even put golf stuff on it for her husband.
That is an AD problem. Just like in the military where the troops reflect the esprit of the leadership, the same holds true for high school cross country runners and their leadership.
The AD half asses a coaching hire, the kids will half ass their enthusiasm.
The best way to handle an AD is to talk to them frequently. That is a tough job and you want to avoid ever talking to him when you are angry. If I have a chance to do it again I will try to make small talk every day. Yes, you will find out what he does not want cross country to do, but at least you might find out ahead of time and he will not have to worry about you pulling a fast one on him. There are many coaches who do that, and I have done that unintentionally.
Unfortunately the previous coach before me left the cupboards pretty empty, but if I could do it over again I would work with the kids that show up and give them my best. I would worry about their success, whether they have a good experience. Fast kids recruit fast kids and numbers are not important.
It starts at the top. The AD and how he/she respects the sport.
The coach has to be there, first, every day and show the most enthusiasm. The kids aren’t dumb and can see through a coach that doesn’t want to be there or doesn’t really love the sport.
Where I am from in the small town south of where I coached, an AD who treated our sport as if it were study hall or the glee club, hired a lady who was wife of the golf coach.
She is there to pad the family income and when her cross country team had social media, even put golf stuff on it for her husband.
That is an AD problem. Just like in the military where the troops reflect the esprit of the leadership, the same holds true for high school cross country runners and their leadership.
The AD half asses a coaching hire, the kids will half ass their enthusiasm.
I coach at a school like this. where Il I've you have to have a teacher be the head coach. The teacher doesn't know anything about running. She "hired" me to help however it's been a waste of my time. First off school ends at 2:30 and it takes her almost an hour to get down to the kids who have been goofing off for 40 minutes waiting for her. Then practice starts almost 1 hour after school. I'll give a workout that suits their training just to be told, "we can't use the track or that field" "they're tired" (they maybe run 15 miles a week) "the weather." It's like she just wants them to run 1 mile, stretch, and go home. They're late to all their races and dead last in every race. They had 2 good runners who ended up transferring to other schools. Half of them barely show up anyways. I called it quits, I'm basically a volunteer and got nothing out of it.
In your situation you might have to ask the teacher and the AD (in that order) if you could take over the practice plans and main administration plans for cross county even if you do not get paid for it. No one is going to care how much you know if you do not care about them. I thought I got a raw deal when it came to school politics, and in some ways I did. But you can overcome those politics with your team, parents, and anyone who follows the team. I will explain below.
Or like in the early 2000’s when our AD decided not to let any XC athletes train off the campus grounds in fear of a kid getting hit by a car along the roads someplace ( ironically, I did have one kid intentionally hit by a crazy guy in a pick up truck during the summer… hospitalized for precautionary reasons and released… )
On mileage days we had to call a day off but have a non payed “ volunteer “ meet the guys off campus to run….. Well anyway thanks to anyone who coaches, cares and tries to make it work in communities that make your efforts difficult
That is certainly a problem in many areas, especially if they do not have established XC programs. But read The Long Green Line, there are many tough programs like that who basically run on a track all cross country season!
Yes “ The long green line” of York. In a small town like where I tried to coach we couldn’t go to any camp in the summer. I set up a series of road races to go to and we had all these parents saying kids shouldn’t road race in the summer!!!!! York didn’t go to road races in the summer!!!!
Yeah, they had hundreds of kids lined up on the roads, bent over, shirts off, hands on their watches getting ready to start their watches on their weekly “ time trials” at their camp their AD was willing to pay for.
I had to pay my guys entries to any indoor meets I took them to.. I paid for all the Gatorade and most of the entries for the road runs in the summer ( to make up for no camp)
As was mentioned above, some small schools and rural communities treat our sport like study hall. The AD stressed whatever sport is big in that area and nothing more.
The athletes know it and that affects whether or not they take it seriously….
Would have been great to be at a place like York or Carmel in Indiana who I once saw bring to State a caravan of three Greyhound Busses filled with Athletes and fans then behind the three busses, a caravan hauling a huge grill for barbecuing after the meet.
My team had a tent, we forgot the floor of the tent and two parents on a Harley went to the store and bought a fruit tray ha!
It all starts at the top. The toughest jobs like the other poster and I had are the funniest and most memorable no doubt.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
I was a teacher/coach for 30 years. Ten of those years were in varsity Athletics; the other 20 were mostly in other sports, especially basketball.
Here is an idea I would love to try: When I coached, I always had the kids vote for the captains, and I always had one vote just like the kids. But I had very few, if any, meetings! If I could do it again, I would have the kids vote for captains in every grade. The total number of captains would depend on team size. If there were only 15 on the team, I would not have more than four captains. As often as possible, I would want to meet with the captains and plan future practices. The team would be instructed to take all of their complaints and suggestions to the captains so they could give them to me during the meetings.
The kids would be responsible for recruiting kids to go out for the team. Not that I would turn people away, but I would not be overly aggressive about recruiting people like I was before. You want people who are eager to come out for the team. One of our most successful XC coaches said that he took attendance during the meets, and he was successful in winning and having more athletes out for his team than probably any other team in our state! I like the idea of treating each team member as an individual. I would talk to the parents and kids about that at the first meeting of the year. I would encourage them to define a good excuse for missing a practice and also give my examples. You tell the group what a reasonable excuse is and what is not, and you keep defining that for people each year. You cannot force people to "behave." My best example for them is that the best year we had with my best team was when we had the best attendance. Hardly anyone missed a practice all year! I would shoot for that as a goal.
I would love to receive feedback, even if it is nasty. That is the reason why I am writing on LRC!
Yes “ The long green line” of York. In a small town like where I tried to coach we couldn’t go to any camp in the summer. I set up a series of road races to go to and we had all these parents saying kids shouldn’t road race in the summer!!!!! York didn’t go to road races in the summer!!!!
Yeah, they had hundreds of kids lined up on the roads, bent over, shirts off, hands on their watches getting ready to start their watches on their weekly “ time trials” at their camp their AD was willing to pay for.
I had to pay my guys entries to any indoor meets I took them to.. I paid for all the Gatorade and most of the entries for the road runs in the summer ( to make up for no camp)
As was mentioned above, some small schools and rural communities treat our sport like study hall. The AD stressed whatever sport is big in that area and nothing more.
The athletes know it and that affects whether or not they take it seriously….
Would have been great to be at a place like York or Carmel in Indiana who I once saw bring to State a caravan of three Greyhound Busses filled with Athletes and fans then behind the three busses, a caravan hauling a huge grill for barbecuing after the meet.
My team had a tent, we forgot the floor of the tent and two parents on a Harley went to the store and bought a fruit tray ha!
It all starts at the top. The toughest jobs like the other poster and I had are the funniest and most memorable no doubt.
I'm sorry to hear about your struggle. Sometimes, you have to admit when you are beaten. Why do you think coaches have so many jobs in their lifetimes? We had several old state championship coaches come to our school after I left, and after many years, they still do not win there; it is tough to turn things around in some situations. Let someone else try.