Can we talk BICARBONATE supplement?

Sure, Jon Gault wrote an article last winter

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2023/11/the-pill-that-over-half-the-distance-medallists-used-at-the-2023-worlds/

I don't care about Arop.

How much can this magical white powder help ME?

I'm in 19 minute 5k shape now but at my peak 10 years ago I could break 16.

It doesn't actually help very much in terms of seconds. For example, it can probably cut someone's time in the 800 by 1 second. Of course if you're in an Olympic final, that 1 second can be the difference between gold and 4th, which is a big deal.

But for a hobby jogger 1 second in an 800 isn't that important.

Well that is a really interesting article Gault wrote. I missed it completely. Thanks.

Can everyone just chill the fudge out on Maurten's product. Athletes were taking bicarbonate before this product and will take it in other forms other than this product.

There is nothing illegal or anywhere near considered doping about eating something alkaline and causing your blood ph to be slightly higher to combat hydrogen ions.

All the Maurten product does is slightly delay or prevent sh1tting your pants by covering it in gelatin to buy your gut 30-60 minutes to pass it beyond your stomach acid and into the small intestine.

Thats it. Fewer 800m/1500m guys running through the mix zone to go crap their guts out in the locker room.

Who is worked up about this? The only one I see is you.

I did it the old fashioned way 40 years ago, and did run my 800m pr.

At the time trials had suggested it was worth 2-3 seconds for 800m, but that's probably more for 2:00 type runners.

That said, take the shoes, track and sodium-bicarb ingestion, and it's not surprising so many guys are suddenly running 1:41.xx

Any "supplement" that - through no work of your own- instantly gives you a 1 second advantage is a cheat.

Queue the people saying "but what about caffeine?"

Caffeine is so ubiquitous that it's become part of most people's daily diet.

No one's having a morning cup of bicarb with their toast.

This is very firmly into the grey-area, where you're trying to give yourself a chemical advantage.

= Turtle Blood. NFW that's It. Total cover

I'm willing to bet that you have baking soda in your kitchen right now

That is not the prime reason why it is coated in gelatin. If you take sodium bicarbonate directly , which by the way people have tried for years, it doesn't do anything except get neutralised by the stomach acid

HCl + NaHCO3 → NaCl + H2CO3, -->

the carbonic acid, CO3+ neutralises to CO3+-->CO2 +H20 , the CO2 will be expelled as burps, farts and a runny stomach, plus digestive problems. Further CO2 and CO3+ entering the blood will be exhaled and neutralised respectively.

So short answer this is why taking spoonfulls of bicarb of soda does not work.

Putting it in gels will bypass the stomach acid and be absorbed straight into blood via upper intestine, increase blood pH (availability of H+) and neutralise the lactic acid, increasing lactate

The dosage and method of delivery promoted commercially is pretty much copied straight from meta analyses of research on this. You could do a better home brew quite easily.

So you've never used baking soda for anything? That is also ubiquitous

Caffeine also boosts performance according to research. Lots of people take energy drinks before races. Let’s also ban carbo-loading before marathons. If it’s just baking soda no big deal.

Dammit whydya have to bring science into the discussion?

🤣

Is that "all" he did? Seems like a good advance.

I'd also add that the pacing for the 800m at the elite level has improved. Post Rudisha I'd frequently see the rabbits going sub-50 on the first lap and, as a result, a lot of positive splits. Now, it seems like most elites are going out a second or so slower on the first lap and trying to run a negative split which is probably a better race pattern.

I realize that caffeine (within certain limits) is officially allowed for running events. Other than that legal technicality, can you explain why, from an ethical perspective, it's apparently so obvious that it's okay to gobble caffeine pills before a race, but not other stimulants? And the same with baking soda - why's it okay to intentionally manipulate your body chemistry with baking soda to improve your performance, but not okay to use certain other drugs?

I'm not even necessarily against these substances myself. Caffeine, for instance, is a standard part of the diet for most people. It's inevitable that, knowing that it aids performance, we would try to time our caffeine intake to optimize its benefit (and maybe take a little more of it than we would under other circumstances). Downing gobs of baking soda, though, seems to be another rung up the Ladder of Dubiousness - perhaps because it's something I would never do under normal circumstances, whereas drinking a cup of coffee is commonplace. Either way, I think it's important to actually think these things through, rather than just pointing out that some substances are easily available and therefore they must be fine.

Okay, but the shoes, fast tracks, and Maurten bi-carb have all been around for the last 2-3 years. It was only in 2024 that we saw a big drop in the top 800m times. What changed in 2024 vs 2022 or 2023?