Herriman ran at the Deseret news 5k this morning in Utah. Air quality was 67, so could be better. The course is on the roads with a bit of uphill and downhill. Quite fast, but also at 4200 feet.
"Nobody will beat them this season". - said by every confident team that thought they were going to win nxn easily only to get 2nd or 3rd. latest example being american fork
Here is a Milesplit video series of a week of training for Great Oak in 2018 when Doug Soles was there. I don’t know if he is using this at Herriman, so this might not be what you’re looking for
"Nobody will beat them this season". - said by every confident team that thought they were going to win nxn easily only to get 2nd or 3rd. latest example being american fork
For Herriman it was actually the opposite in 2023. Some people didn’t think they would even make NXN just because they lost 4 scorers from 2022 (including 2 all-Americans). And they end up winning NXN in 2023 (even though their regular #1 was sick and didn’t score)
Herriman ran at the Deseret news 5k this morning in Utah. Air quality was 67, so could be better. The course is on the roads with a bit of uphill and downhill. Quite fast, but also at 4200 feet.
Herriman ran at the Deseret news 5k this morning in Utah. Air quality was 67, so could be better. The course is on the roads with a bit of uphill and downhill. Quite fast, but also at 4200 feet.
I just watched a bunch of those videos. First... respect to Doug Soles and his athletes. The goal is to be national class and man, does he get them there. I also listened to a podcast with him and he's all about hard work... which I love. No substitute.
Looked up a couple of the runners who were interviewed and was a little surprised they weren't faster on the track. Was also surprised that they didn't have much of a college career. I am asking as a coach, not as a critic... do you think his training intensity (he said they train 12x a week) is too much?
When do his kids study, do clubs, etc? Or do they just not? Do they pretty much expect that running, like school play, or school newspapre, government, etc is a 1 and done thing (meaning post hs its not going to be something they do?).
I go back and forth with enforcing doubles, weight lifting, plyos, drills, 60-70mpw, etc etc etc (which athletically I want to have my guys do) with also recognizing that these kids shold be kids and do other stuff and have other interests. I also worry it will burn them out.
I just watched a bunch of those videos. First... respect to Doug Soles and his athletes. The goal is to be national class and man, does he get them there. I also listened to a podcast with him and he's all about hard work... which I love. No substitute.
Looked up a couple of the runners who were interviewed and was a little surprised they weren't faster on the track. Was also surprised that they didn't have much of a college career. I am asking as a coach, not as a critic... do you think his training intensity (he said they train 12x a week) is too much?
When do his kids study, do clubs, etc? Or do they just not? Do they pretty much expect that running, like school play, or school newspapre, government, etc is a 1 and done thing (meaning post hs its not going to be something they do?).
I go back and forth with enforcing doubles, weight lifting, plyos, drills, 60-70mpw, etc etc etc (which athletically I want to have my guys do) with also recognizing that these kids shold be kids and do other stuff and have other interests. I also worry it will burn them out.
Any thoughts on this?
Lots of those kids didn’t actually like running enough to want to pursue it in college. Lots of mental struggles with not performing on a college team that has a weaker team culture than high school. They took advantage of the degrees and scholarships they received (which has huge rewards).
Soles teams are a huge reflection of culture and how environment influences human performance. Lots of Great Oak’s studs were recruited from soccer or other sports, they hated running, but they were super competitive. There are tons of schools out there can be at Herriman’s level today in dense population areas. Their coaches just aren’t doing the game changing things.
You will probably put the kids at risk of “burnout” (so many other factors) in college but, the main priority for these kids going to college is to earn highly accredited degrees. You can either push them to a Berkeley scholarship or hold them back for a distance school like Toledo, GCU, etc.
Looked up a couple of the runners who were interviewed and was a little surprised they weren't faster on the track. Was also surprised that they didn't have much of a college career. I am asking as a coach, not as a critic... do you think his training intensity (he said they train 12x a week) is too much?
There is an inherent problem with hitting high mileage in high school. If you're a 40 mpw kind of guy, you should improve when you bump up to 50. My old school was still able to routinely podium/top 5 at NXR while doing something like 15/25/35/45 mpw as a fresh/soph/jr/senior.
The problem was, to be a REALLY good high school team, these days you need 60-70 mpw plus lots of extra stuff. That's the Newbury Park effect. The trade off, is that a kid that ran 9:00 off of 45 mile weeks can improve much more in college as they build to 100 mpw (60 mpw increase) over a kid who ran 8:45 with 70 mpw (30 mpw increase).
Unless you have genetic phenoms like the Youngs and Sahlmans, (and that's not even the full story because Mike Smith is a wizard and they have altitude) you need to either increase mileage or add in more elements like altitude to get better. With runners who do the volume that Great Oak does, its MUCH MUCH harder to improve in college than with the typical kid who's coach didn't know anything.
It's a world of trade offs, and the Herriman/Great Oak guys are trading collegiate improvement for high school improvement. There's a case to be made that some of these guys would never get scholarships in any other program without the Doug Soles training, but I'll leave that for you to decide...
I just watched a bunch of those videos. First... respect to Doug Soles and his athletes. The goal is to be national class and man, does he get them there. I also listened to a podcast with him and he's all about hard work... which I love. No substitute.
Looked up a couple of the runners who were interviewed and was a little surprised they weren't faster on the track. Was also surprised that they didn't have much of a college career. I am asking as a coach, not as a critic... do you think his training intensity (he said they train 12x a week) is too much?
When do his kids study, do clubs, etc? Or do they just not? Do they pretty much expect that running, like school play, or school newspapre, government, etc is a 1 and done thing (meaning post hs its not going to be something they do?).
I go back and forth with enforcing doubles, weight lifting, plyos, drills, 60-70mpw, etc etc etc (which athletically I want to have my guys do) with also recognizing that these kids shold be kids and do other stuff and have other interests. I also worry it will burn them out.
Any thoughts on this?
Lots of those kids didn’t actually like running enough to want to pursue it in college. Lots of mental struggles with not performing on a college team that has a weaker team culture than high school. They took advantage of the degrees and scholarships they received (which has huge rewards).
Soles teams are a huge reflection of culture and how environment influences human performance. Lots of Great Oak’s studs were recruited from soccer or other sports, they hated running, but they were super competitive. There are tons of schools out there can be at Herriman’s level today in dense population areas. Their coaches just aren’t doing the game changing things.
You will probably put the kids at risk of “burnout” (so many other factors) in college but, the main priority for these kids going to college is to earn highly accredited degrees. You can either push them to a Berkeley scholarship or hold them back for a distance school like Toledo, GCU, etc.
I think it's telling that you blame the college team for having a "weaker team culture" at the same time you are saying the athletes don't like running. It's on the ATHLETE to work their @$$ off every day, can't blame the college coach or the team culture.
The TRUTH is that high school teams like this and Saratoga and FM, and even NBP (minus the ultra talented Youngs and Sahlmans) are CULTS. Apparently you can win in high school like that but it really F**ks you up long term.
These coaches burn out their athletes, both physically and mentally. If they lost their passion from running in college, it's because their high school coach prioritized the wrong things.
I'm a new coach and the team I have walked into is about 10 strong and not particularly good. Have a 1:59 800 guy who runs like 25mpw and another kid who is 4:35/9:45 who runs between 40 and 50 a week. Everyone else is like a 4:55-5:15 kid who I can't get to train over the summer and do the bare minimum during school.
The latter kid will do what you tell him and is the one I would push. But he's also the one who wants to run D3 and I don't want to burn him out. I think he can get to 9:25-30/4:25 this spring doing what we're doing or I can grind him and maybe he runs 9:10-9:20 and 4:22 or something. I'm just not sure what the trade off is by doing this. He has steadily improved just through consistency... so I lean towards that. Get him up to 50-55mpw and get him to do core and a little lifting on top of twice a week workouts and strides.
"Nobody will beat them this season". - said by every confident team that thought they were going to win nxn easily only to get 2nd or 3rd. latest example being american fork
American fork was ranked with Herriman. They never said they could not be beat just that they had a chance to win but Herriman came out on top.
I just watched a bunch of those videos. First... respect to Doug Soles and his athletes. The goal is to be national class and man, does he get them there. I also listened to a podcast with him and he's all about hard work... which I love. No substitute.
Looked up a couple of the runners who were interviewed and was a little surprised they weren't faster on the track. Was also surprised that they didn't have much of a college career. I am asking as a coach, not as a critic... do you think his training intensity (he said they train 12x a week) is too much?
When do his kids study, do clubs, etc? Or do they just not? Do they pretty much expect that running, like school play, or school newspapre, government, etc is a 1 and done thing (meaning post hs its not going to be something they do?).
I go back and forth with enforcing doubles, weight lifting, plyos, drills, 60-70mpw, etc etc etc (which athletically I want to have my guys do) with also recognizing that these kids shold be kids and do other stuff and have other interests. I also worry it will burn them out.
Any thoughts on this?
I think they are not burnt out. I think they just reach their ceiling or get closer to it than most kids in high school. I would happily send my kids to a program like that because I know how much fun it is to be in an environment where your coach can get you to achieve so much.